Today’s modern world allows us abundant comforts but the human spirit doesn’t thrive on being overly comfortable. It withers. Having it too easy leads to, at best, feeling unfulfilled and adrift. Worse, we see depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and other thrill-seeking addictions. Training to do hard things not only prepares us for the challenges life will always throw at us, it provides ways to grow.

Today I have the honor of sharing an interview I did on Josh Guerrero’s All Around Adventure Podcast. You probably remember him from a month ago here on episode 40. Josh is a great host and ran a fun episode where he allowed me to talk about some of my formative travel adventures, some of the challenges life threw at me a while back, and then we talk about traveling to seek out crucible events to get outside our comfort zones and grow.

I had a great time chatting with Josh and I’m excited to share this one with you…Stay tuned at the end for a reminder about Josh’s Operation Dual Trek to benefit veterans and find out where to support that cause and tune in to Josh and the All Around Adventure Podcast.


Josh ranks travel memories and stories as more meaningful than any material possession and has racked up some great adventures so far – shipwreck diving in Lake Superior, cycling 300 miles across The Gambia, floating on top of the salty water of the Dead Sea, and riding camels in the Sahara desert, just to name a few. Oh, and quite a few unique travel meals were had too!

All of these stories and more are shared regularly through Josh’s All Around Adventure podcast where he shares adventures and misadventure to inspire travel, life abroad, and provide tips and ideas to help make your future travels safer and less stressful.


  • The inspiration for my international travels
  • Situational awareness abroad
  • Traveling to seek out crucibles

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We will learn from executives, athletes, entrepreneurs, academics, relationship experts, wealth managers, and warriors. Embrace success as a process – not a singular event – achieved through grit, resilience, and perseverance. Study strategies to achieve extraordinary results through simple consistent actions, accomplishing what others deem impossible.

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Michael [00:00:00] Today's modern world allows us abundant Comforts but the human Spirit doesn't thrive on being overly comfortable. In fact, it Withers having it too easy leads to ED best feeling unfulfilled feeling adrift worse. We see depression anxiety substance abuse and other thrill-seeking addictions training to do hard things.

Michael [00:00:21] Not only prepares us for the challenges life will always throw at us. It provides ways to grow.

Michael [00:00:41] Hey guys, what's going on? I'm Michael Bullock. And I'm the host and founder of the man of Mastery podcast. Now whether you're joining us for the first time or you've been here for a little while. I want to welcome you and I want to thank you for being here. It truly means a ton to me. I know your time is valuable. I really appreciate it. And I do appreciate you. This is the show where we're putting together purpose and passion in action where we Embrace getting out of our comfort zones to grow standing ready to learn and ready to lead.

Michael [00:01:08] This is your resource to discover. Learn from others their Mastery journey and apply it in yours. We're here to align happiness fulfillment Health Wellness productivity and peace.

Michael [00:01:19] I often like to comment on

Michael [00:01:20] why this show is called man of Mastery. It's about self Mastery in service to others today. I have the honor of sharing an interview. I did on Josh Guerreros all around Adventure podcast. You probably remember him from about a month ago here on episode 40 the guy. I called the real life, Indiana. Owns Josh is a great interview host and he ran a fun episode where he allowed me to talk about some of my favorite formative travel Adventures some of the challenges life through a meal while back and then we also talked about traveling to seek out Crucible events to get outside of our comfort zones and grow.

Michael [00:01:58] I had a great time chatting with Josh and I'm really excited to share this one with you stay tuned at the end for a reminder about Josh's dual Trek effort. Its operation dual track and he's doing that to Veterans you can find out at the end of this episode where to support that cause how to tune into Josh and how to learn more about the all-around Adventure

Michael [00:02:18] podcast.

Josh [00:02:53] Hey, what's going on everyone? My name is Josh Guerrero, and I'm the host and founder of this podcast, which is simply titled the all-around Adventure podcast is the show you here amazing tales From Afar and get the all important life lessons that go along with them and I am talking with Travelers of all kinds on this podcast. I am talking with Elite Warriors digital Nomads best selling authors bloggers adventurers philanthropist.

Josh [00:03:18] You name it if they have a fantastic travel story to tell with some great life lessons to share it. My job to seek them out and bring them on this podcast and extract their stories and life lesson through powerful conversations to help you level up in your life and have a fantastic guest joining me today for today. I'll be talking with Michael Bullock. Michael is the host and founder of the mat of Mastery podcast a show through which he tries to help his audience achieve Elite life performance, and he does this by talking with a ride array of guess and not too long ago.

Josh [00:03:49] I was actually a guest on his show. I joined him for episode 4 82 talk about my time as a Peace Corps volunteer and my time in England as a grad student. I also got to talk a little bit about operation dual Trek, but he hosts a fantastic show. I definitely encourage you all to go check that out what you're done listening to this episode. But of course The Story Goes much deeper than that back around his 30th birthday.

Josh [00:04:12] He set off into the world and he spent seven months trekking around the world on a long extended backpacking trip covering multiple countries across six continents and Since then he's gone on to do other amazing things and one of them includes traveling around doing obstacle course race in and seeking out other endurance events.

Josh [00:04:32] And I found this particularly fascinating because I often wondered why would someone do literally go travel somewhere just to seek out suffering but as we get into this conversation and that you'll hear you'll find that there is good reason behind as to why Michael does it and why so many other people choose to go to events like Spartan races and tough If mutters and SEAL Fit events, just like I said seek out suffering so very interesting conversation, but there's a lot of value that comes when we do get out of our comfort zone and seek out suffering and you'll certainly hear about that.

Josh [00:05:06] Once we get into my discussion with Michael today. And that's really all I have to say on that. Let's just go ahead and get right into this. I really think you all are going to enjoy this episode. I definitely had a great time chatting with Michael about this topic. So without further Ado, let's just go ahead and get right into this and this is conversation with Michael bollock All right, here we go.

Josh [00:05:28] Everyone another awesome episode of the all-around Adventure podcast. And today I'm joined by Michael Bowen. Who is the creator of man of Mastery Michael? What's going on Matt? Thanks so much for taking time for joining me today and welcome to the

Michael [00:05:39] show. Hey, what's up Josh? Yeah. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Looking forward to being on.

Josh [00:05:43] Yeah likewise, you know you and I were actually on the ground in Lake Tahoe a couple months back, but unfortunately I missed you there and I'm just kind of sort of catching up with you after the fact, but I had a don't know about you, but I had a great. Time there. What about you? What was it? Like running in the race there?

Michael [00:06:02] Yeah, amazing venue amazing event Iran Iran one that all of Saturday for me and you know, really Friday prep and Sunday recovery and watching my son's race on Sunday. So sorry to have missed you that took up kind of my whole Focus for the weekend didn't get a whole lot of on-site podcasting done with the startup podcast Festival, but some incredible people there at the race at the at the festival and Maybe we'll hook up there this

Josh [00:06:28] year. Yeah, I think so well, and we're certainly going to be diving in the topic of obstacle course racing as we get further on to this episode. But as you and I were connecting you also kind of queued me in on another amazing experience that you had and shortly before your 30th birthday. You set off to go backpacking around the world. So I kind of want to hear a little bit about that experience.

Josh [00:06:50] Can you tell us you know, what kind of inspired you to take a trip like that? And where did you set off to?

Michael [00:06:56] Yeah. Sure. Or not I give all the credit for that really an inspiration to a guy I met through work who became a very very good friend. In fact was best man at my wedding ultimately and he's from New Zealand. So what what he told me, yeah, these photo books laying around back in the days of hard copy photos, right and just had these amazing pictures of like Mount Everest and all these places.

Michael [00:07:22] He had been and he was telling me he goes look, you know at that time. He goes like We're a nation of maybe four million people and we're sort of in the middle of nowhere looks like we're close to Australia, but even then we're you know, we're hours away by flight and and of the four million people, you know kiwis in the world, maybe a million live abroad so we have this strong sense of isolation and the danger in that and so he said our view is that you have your formal education through school, but then we also form of Education that we call overseas Expedition and we really encourage our Heads to go even if it's you know a month or two weeks or three months get out and see the world see different cultures and learn about themselves and learn different things.

Michael [00:08:07] So I you know America is so big and then by extension North America here with Canada and Mexico, there's so much richness to see that it's easy to get stuck kind of at home and that just really, you know kicked me in the in the tail to get out there and want to do something so I put together it took me a while, but I put together.

Michael [00:08:27] Other fairly epic trip I spent about seven months why I planned it out, but then I grabbed a backpack and literally sort of went around the world. All

Josh [00:08:36] right, that's pretty cool. You know, it's interesting how you describe New Zealander is or what do they call themselves kiwis uses? Yeah. Yeah. It's just like how they practice that worldly travel Expedition. I just remember with myself growing up, you know, maybe taking it. I'm from Michigan originally and just taking a trip to one of the Wags that was like an epic adventure adventure for me in and of itself, even though I literally just took a card like for like an hour down the road but then for them to say yeah, you need to get him plain you need to go here you need to go to this country need to get out of your own country.

Josh [00:09:11] You know, that's pretty unique there. I'd say,

Michael [00:09:15] yeah, it's an incredible sort of view and you know took me to my mid-20s to get anywhere International and then as you said sir late in my twenties to Do this this big one but then you know you do it and I think we'll talk about this. There's just there's just so much to learn from it's much more than just the incredible experience of the places.

Michael [00:09:36] You you go and the things you see there's just a whole richness of learning about yourself and developing a worldview.

Josh [00:09:43] Yeah, definitely. So you got this inspiration to go out and start doing this trip. Now, how did you actually go about preparing for it? Let's say as far as setting up like the finances and the logistics because I'd say that these are Two of kind of like the biggest things that would ultimately, you know, keep someone from taking a trip like this there were like can I afford it or can I put my life on hold to go out and do this?

Josh [00:10:07] I'm kind of curious to ask you. Just how did you go about getting all that stuff ready to go be out in the world for seven months.

Michael [00:10:14] Yeah for sure. I think maybe two or three things of note around that I would say, you're never ready. There's never an easy time. It's probably like having a kid or something, you know, you're never ready and you just gotta like a a lot of these things like podcasting whatever it might be just got to lean into it. And in fact, I put it off several times.

Michael [00:10:35] I again as my late 20s, so I was already into a working career. I went from a large corporation where I met that buddy the Kiwi buddy and then to a start-up and I tried to do it in between thinking between jobs would be the perfect time and the startup goes. Hey, we're in start-up. We need you now and so In the Heat of that battle, it was put off a few times and then fine.

Michael [00:10:56] I was like, I can't I can't put Life anymore. You know, there's there's a balance to this. Oh, I'd say one is obviously got to kind of work it out and I was fortunate to negotiate the ability to do that as a leave of absence and come back but there's never there's never a perfect time as one I would say to financially I don't know that I had a good sense of what it was going to cost but you know, we're talking dollars almost 20 years ago, but I saved up $10,000.

Michael [00:11:27] I can tell you that I came back with money in the bank. Wow. Yeah, the US dollar has been so strong against so many currencies overseas that it was it was and again, you know, I was young I was doing hostiles. I mean the cheapest place I stayed I remember I played paid the equivalent of 25 cents on night for a room and a bed.

Michael [00:11:49] Wow in like a Backpackers hot in Nepal so you can go incredibly cheap and then the third thing you This was definitely fortunate and maybe a little bit unique is I was traveling for work at that time in my life and was saving up frequent flyer miles and and I don't know what it costs these days.

Michael [00:12:10] But most of your lines have a what they call a round-the-world ticket and you can pick a direction around the globe and you get a certain number of stops as long as you keep going either east or west and I was actually able to pick that up with the miles I had saved up so I spent a hundred and forty thousand Delta Miles got business. Class and figured out a trip West around the world

Josh [00:12:31] Rolling In Style then I liked it. So

Michael [00:12:35] I grew out a just quick note on that in my travels. I grew out a gnarly ugly go t on the way and I can remember boarding a couple flights, you know, get on all unshaven and with a backpack on and like an Australian style hat and the flight attendants going like hey turn right and I'm going like nothing will turn to the left. I'm in seat like one

Josh [00:12:54] a I would have loved to see the look on their faces. All right. Well, you know, you actually just made me think of something you brought up that point about how you know, you're never entirely sure if you're if you're ready for it or not, or if it's the right time, but you know, I couldn't agree with you more that you know, the stars are never going to align perfectly for us to start something and it was it's also kind of funny how you mentioned this.

Josh [00:13:19] I'm part of a podcaster support group on Facebook and someone posted in their earlier this morning this morning asking. Okay. I'm about to get I want to get started. Our dad so how do I get started? And I just commented saying just get started now figure stuff out as you go because you know, that's ultimately just what you have to do, right? Because the longer you wait the more you're going to try to rationalize not doing it at all and once those creep in and then you're going to wonder where did all that time going your competitors.

Josh [00:13:47] If you have any in whatever you're doing, they're already way ahead of you because they already started themselves.

Michael [00:13:52] So yeah, right whether it's with his business whether it's a new Venture whether it's you know fan, Others travel, you know, you're probably just going to get out there and do it. Nothing is perfect. You're going to make mistakes that's part of the fun. And you know, the sooner you get after it the sooner you're going to realize the joy of whatever it is. You're embarking on and and probably wish you'd done it sooner.

Josh [00:14:11] Yeah, definitely. So let's talk a little bit more about this trip was getting some of the details. So was New Zealand the first place that you had went to you mentioned Nepal in there. So kind of just take us to like the first place that you set foot in.

Michael [00:14:24] Yeah. Let me see if I can do the rundown. Down real quick. I so I needed to start I was going west and I was living in Atlanta at the time and I wanted to go to South America. I want to go to Mexico and South America and this journey including Chile. I you know, the I guess the stereotype is Americans have a bad sense of international geography and and I didn't realize that most of South America is east of most of North America.

Michael [00:14:58] So I'm like wait a minute. I want to go west. I want to go to South America. So I think I officially started my trip in Santiago Chile, which means I was supposed to end my trip there which that's kind of interesting story when we get to the end of this thing because I jumped off my round-the-world ticket early and that did not go over well with some with some people in the Airlines and Customs immigration.

Michael [00:15:21] So yeah, officially I started in Chile and then Mexico and then went from there to Asia. Shh

Josh [00:15:27] gotcha. So what were some of the key highlights? I mean because we're talking seven months that you're out there just getting on planes hopping all these different spots on the world. So of course, we're not gonna be able to get everything everything in this call. But just what were some of like the key highlights that you remember from this experience.

Michael [00:15:47] Yeah. Sure. I'm you walk away with so much. So see if I can do the quick rundown of stops your country. So Chile Mexico for a buddy's wedding.

Josh [00:15:57] We're

Michael [00:15:57] waiting. Yeah destination wedding and then I was on my way to either Australia or New Zealand. I forget which order I did them in and that was a Delta of partner flight through on Korean Air. So I went through soul and it was just supposed to be a daytime layover in and it turned out to be in the middle of a snowstorm.

Michael [00:16:18] So, you know, nothing goes right no matter how well you plan it. So I actually ended up stuck in Korea for a day and actually got to the unexpectedly spend the night in Korea went out to dinner and in Seoul so, you know right away kind of a highlight of unexpected unexpected stop over the airline's treated us to a dinner and souls is amazing.

Michael [00:16:41] Right? So just stuff like that happens over there in Asia also did so Oceania did Australia New Zealand Singapore Vietnam Nepal was quite a big stop for five weeks. I think the longest series of flights I did. Had to backtrack from there because these are all airline miles right from Katmandu.

Michael [00:17:04] I think back to Singapore back to Vietnam and then maybe through Korea over to transfer through Paris to get to South Africa through Johannesburg Cape Town and then ultimately in 7 months goes pretty fast, unbelievably.

Michael [00:17:24] Yeah after after South Africa, I think that's when I found my way back up to Greece spent some time in Greece and then ended up in England before coming home.

Josh [00:17:32] So you literally had all six continents and one Fell Swoop basically here.

Michael [00:17:37] Yeah, just missed this one. But you know in terms of other highlights, I think it we can always pick some out and happy to have it to go through some of those places if you're interested in any of those, but yeah, it's a me like one of the biggest things is the People You Meet along the way they kind of make the experience and and you Friends or you walk away with these stories of the personalities that you meet while traveling.

Josh [00:18:03] Yeah, I can agree with you there. And that was a tricky thing for me at first when I kind of started, you know, bumping out to the world because like I'm introverted by nature and especially like in some of the places I've lived like I lived in like in a rural Village in West Africa for two years and that was quite the adjustment but is I think a lot of it is also just having an open mind two dozen dead because obviously we a lot of cultures that you're going to come across, you know, there's going to be a lot of differences that you're going to observe and some of them may seem strange and unusual as well.

Josh [00:18:36] But I think once you have an open mind and just have that Curiosity and just what you pick up and what you take from that and especially when you interact with like the locals to that definitely makes for a very good memorable experience I can agree with you there.

Michael [00:18:50] Yeah. It sure does curious is just a great word for it. I mean, I know we'll talk a little bit about the man of mastery. Sure that I'm on now, but if I think about it in hindsight really what I'm doing with that thing, it's all about curiosity and learning and learning through experience often times through things that aren't so comfortable and especially international travel.

Michael [00:19:12] It kind of provides all that, you know, you get you get a physical aspect of it because probably almost without fail you're going to walk more than you do here at home. We have a fairly car based Auto based sedentary lifestyle. You're going to find yourself in in very very different cultures that may not value your freedom of expression or civil liberties as much as here.

Michael [00:19:34] You're going to have different ways to deal with authorities and respect the fact that you don't live in that place. You're not a citizen of that place maybe different cultural practices religions, you know, you're going to be put in uncomfortable situations sometimes maybe things you're afraid of maybe things that are literally dangerous, you know, so there's a level of awareness and intuition that you have to develop things are going to Frustrated they're not going to go your way.

Michael [00:19:58] So you're going to develop a level of emotional control and stoicism. So like all these things that I think are sort of interesting to read and talk about man. They're all packaged right there. If you go do some international travel. Yeah it

Josh [00:20:12] definitely you know, as you were talking about that one of the policies I developed for myself was more or less just Dive Right In especially one of the things that was really unusual to me was some of the different food dishes that I came across around the world. When I was living in West Africa, I was I was a teacher trainer there for Peace Corps and one of the students at the school in my Village, he came up to me and one of the teachers he had this big giant rat dangling by the tail that he literally no joke flushed out of its hole.

Josh [00:20:45] He he like just put a pail of water into this hole in the ground and snatch this rat as it came up and killed it with his bare hands and then I'm like dude. Don't bring that to me get rid of it. And he says, oh he says, oh no, Eat it. And I'm like what what no get rid of it. And then the teachers like oh no these rats are edible here, you know, they'll cook it up and we can all we can all eat it.

Josh [00:21:06] I'm like, oh I will just bring me a piece of when you once it's ready then please and but you know that was you know, just because obviously of course here in the States, you know, most people wouldn't just, you know eat a rat that they just like, you know found out in the middle of the field somewhere, but here that was the very normal thing and so And I was you know happy to try it actually wasn't half bad.

Josh [00:21:31] But you know, it just kind of just goes to show like how you mentioned that getting out of your comfort zone and is realizing that a lot of the things that we may be afraid of or uncomfortable with really aren't that bad as we made them out to be you know, so it just really comes a matter of just diving in and just you know, really kind of just having that great experience that you could you know, remember for years on

Michael [00:21:53] absolutely. I don't think I have any culinary stories quite like that. You know, you're so right. It seems like all of our fears and you know, I think it's probably a biological survival mechanism from from days past is fears kept us alive, and they're still valuable. There's a great book. I think it's called The Gift of fear.

Michael [00:22:14] I read long time ago on the recommendation of a friend that is all about distinguishing valid fear from fears of things that really yeah people were things that aren't meant to hurt us or not unlike there. That are unlikely to hurt us. And yeah, our mind has a way of getting away from us and over blowing those fears until we actually try it and you know, hey, maybe that thing tasted like chicken, you know, maybe was pretty pretty good.

Michael [00:22:39] But yeah, I love that philosophy of just getting out there and kind of saying yes and trying

Josh [00:22:43] things. Yeah, and then not not to mention that I think I also fear regret a little bit more like when I was when I was in Lake Tahoe, I sat down with Patrick Sweeney who you've also had on your podcast to and you know, he was telling Me the story of how he was fearing a lot of regret when he was in his hospital bed with leukemia and thinking that he was like so afraid of flying and doing all this stuff up to this point and he thought that he was going to move on into the next world without having done all these things and that's what ultimately led him to do.

Josh [00:23:15] All this really cool shit. Like, you know, he's flying around and stunt planes now, even though he was afraid to fly for the first like 35 years of his life. So so I think the fear of regret I think kind of sort of Trump's a lot of those fears. That we might have

Michael [00:23:28] otherwise. Yeah, that's a great way to flip it around and maybe kind of a mental exercise is to work up those emotions of you know, not what if I did this what if I didn't do this?

Josh [00:23:40] Yeah, definitely so kind of continuing on with sort of this topic of things being uncomfortable getting out of our comfort zone. No doubt that you probably had some challenges some Misadventures along the way to any of those kind of come to mind from the Once there because again you were touching all these different, you know parts of the world.

Josh [00:24:00] So sure you must have had at least a couple.

Michael [00:24:03] Yeah, I'm sure there were a number often times, you know language barriers just make things feel uncertain if not present challenges everywhere. I went I tried to learn a little bit, you know, even if it was learn how to count from 1 to 1 to 10, which you know, if you sit there reciting the numbers one to ten to somebody it doesn't Sara Lee facilitate anything but they'll think it's cute, you know breaks the ice a little bit right there just you know things like hello and goodbye.

Michael [00:24:34] And thank you common courtesies, but I don't know maybe a couple I could pick out from Nepal just because it's such an incredible place that I enjoyed so much and maybe talk about like a couple different types of fear. So one is if you travel around that country by bus, the roads are narrow their hairpin turns the buses are massive traffic.

Michael [00:24:57] Come in both directions and you kind of go. Well, you know, like like these guys have got it dialed in they drive this route every day or whatever rights professionals, but then you notice the driver has like a shrine on the dashboard of pictures of his family and his ancestors and religious icons and kind of go like this guy seems like he's ready to go out at any moment.

Josh [00:25:19] It's already made his peace.

Michael [00:25:21] I'm not I'm not completely sure. He's planning on coming home tonight, or he did he feel certain that he's going to To so, you know, you kind of hit stuff like that that makes you makes you wonder and then I had another experience there as well, which was probably related a little bit to to a language barrier where I think it was transferring between buses in some town and it was unclear.

Michael [00:25:46] We weren't communicating effectively on how long we were going to wait what was going on when it's our understanding was that another bus was coming right along and I being like a fairly long delay. And the group that were transferring buses they kind of moved us into an internal Courtyard of the building and yeah, good. Go back to sort of the, you know, trust your gut trust your intuition kind of thing.

Michael [00:26:10] That was probably of anything. I could think of luckily ended up not to be any kind of physical danger, but that was the one place my radar went off that. I can really think of other than the normal pickpockets and things like that like, okay. This just doesn't sort of seem right. It would suddenly gotten physically isolated from from the rest of our Travel Group.

Michael [00:26:33] Nobody's giving us a straight answer on one of the buses come in. And and so and yeah, I just kind of got out of there as politely as quickly as I could back to back to the street and back in view of public and things like that. So those were those are a couple things where you know, maybe the fear of riding the bus no big deal and in other cases, you know, maybe trust the here and kind of go go with your

Josh [00:26:58] gut. Yeah, that's that's pretty interesting. And you know for all we know all of that probably might have been pretty benign. Your there probably was no real issue there. But I think that when it comes to just things like that, you know, if your gut is telling you one thing it's probably because it has your best interest at heart. It's so maybe you know listen to it. I

Josh [00:27:19] mean, I don't think it wants you to fail or get her or anything like that. So so who knows, you know what came from that situation with everyone there? Way, they're all okay. I'm sure they are but that's an interesting point and as actually a very interesting scenario to be into it says why would they just isolate everyone into this like, you know place that's well away from the street.

Josh [00:27:41] They yeah, that's kind of interesting.

Michael [00:27:43] Yeah, and that's not to say like, hey don't travel because there are dangers out there. I mean and I'm probably a little over the top, you know when my son was an infant and I kind of looked at as like look I'm going to I'm going to get out of here is politely and quickly as I can. But I'd rather be you know, kind of safe than sorry is the old saying and when I had an infant son, you know standing in line at the grocery or something.

Michael [00:28:06] Everybody wants to go like hey cute, baby. I always sort of looked at it as you know, this is a stranger. I'm never going to see him again, and I'd rather you just not get close to my son and I don't want my son as he grew into a toddler didn't want him to become accustomed to talking to strangers. And so, you know at the offense of probably or the risk of probably offending some Just early on I just started telling people.

Michael [00:28:30] Hey, sorry he doesn't talk to strangers, you know, and that was just another way of going like well, maybe I'm a little over the top but I'm just going to be it's going to be

Josh [00:28:38] safe. Well, I think that strikes a good balance like some people would say that oh, you're just you're just being paranoid. Everyone's nice and you know, you can trust everyone I'm like, well, you're not really being paranoid. You're just being prepared. You know, you're just you're just you're just being ready. I mean so but it is one of those things that you know, just going back to Simply. Like you said just rather be safe than sorry because you know, it's this having a son is much different than you being isolated in this random Courtyard out of a bus stop.

Josh [00:29:07] There's a lot more at stake now here. So I think you know having your guard up maybe just a little bit more this time around to I'd say it's pretty valid.

Michael [00:29:14] Yeah, and you know, we're very very fortunate that for the most part life in America is safe life is generally valued more than it is in a lot of places in the world. And so I Just a sense that you know as people start to travel abroad you just have to develop more of that situational awareness kind of more paying more attention to what's going on around you.

Michael [00:29:38] My wife is very intuitive in those kind of ways. I think I became accustomed to growing up in our bubble here. That's just something I've had to learn to practice and again the world's not out to get you but it's always good to understand your surroundings and kind of what's going on.

Josh [00:29:54] Yeah, definitely. So, but that Only sounds like a pretty amazing experience but kind of Shifting Gears a little bit following that experience. You kind of got hit with a pretty big setback and around your 30th birthday. You suffered a pretty staggering back injury. So can you tell us a little bit about that and just kind of how you went from that point recovery and things like that?

Michael [00:30:22] Yeah. Sure. I'll I'll Blaze through some some history there and maybe I'll Just refreshing my own memory. I'll work through some of the end of that trip which which you know, and this kind of segue is from remain flexible and remain aware, you know, if you will so even even going back to Nepal which was in zoos April of 2001.

Michael [00:30:47] I ended up leaving the Paul and and just a very very short time later. I mean it might maybe a day later. I don't recall there was a A tragic murder, I guess this is the only thing you really call it one of the royal family Royal Nepalese family came into a dinner and murdered the king and a bunch of the family.

Michael [00:31:09] And so the whole country was on lockdown. So if I you know, if I had still been there a day later or whatever it might have been then then all of a sudden you're in a situation where travel plans change very very quickly. Yeah, but I was leaving and one of the reasons I was leaving and and one of the reasons I kind of mentioned. Like staying flexible in life is 2001 Osama.

Michael [00:31:32] Bin Laden's name started popping up all over the place. And so I just started becoming very in tune to the state department warnings and I would just kind of you know ab and flow with some of my travel plans destinations and changed changed a few along the way and then I ended up back in the States in August of 2001.

Michael [00:31:52] So she sure will very shortly before nine eleven. So as you mentioned this I was 29 years old. I was turning 30 that fall and and you know in great health I backpacked around the world carrying carrying a big pack up and down some big mountains and Glaciers and incredible stuff like that sort of took a day for my 30th birthday and did a solo I don't know 14 miles or so around the Appalachians on a fairly Challenger like things were these are awesome.

Michael [00:32:22] But same time in hindsight, you know, I never kind of took care of my back or Caution of my back, you know, your parents always say like then that your knees lift the right way things like that, right? Whether it's through sport or just everyday life or picking up that travel backpack or whatever. Eventually I ended up just kind of blowing it out one day and in like a weird accident and it is absolutely crazy.

Michael [00:32:46] You know, I wouldn't wish it on anybody. It's super debilitating. They'll lower back pain sciatic nerve and it's kind of thing that can just, you know effects effects everything. Thing so a lot of things we take for granted in our health, especially when we when we travel I mean I could I could barely sit in a chair for a few hours at work or or just sit down period to the point where I think I read this on my website are told some people to get up in the morning and lean over the sink to shave.

Michael [00:33:19] It was such an effort that then I would collapse again in like a cold sweat and have to recover before I could stand up to take a shower. So ultimately I ended up having a repair surgery which is it's a an incredible Health, but it's certainly not a fixed because nothing's the same and we don't really know how to fix the back. So you end up kind of having to figure it out all over again.

Michael [00:33:43] It took a really long time to rehab it to a decent State especially as active as I've always been traveling Sport and and otherwise and that can get really frustrating. You start to have a lot of doubts, you know, you doubt what the quality of life is going to be. I mean to put it in perspective. Hey in Nepal, you know, I hiked up to almost 18,000 feet carrying a pack day. I

Michael [00:34:09] went into surgery for my back. I had to ask my mom to put my socks on for me, you know, and so you really start to doubt what life is going to look like after that even, you know, would it affect my career? Could I can I still go to an office? Can I sit in a chair? And I travel things like that and and so You know, I guess if you go with the theme of these challenges in life offer opportunities, depending on how you think about it.

Michael [00:34:34] Well, hey, there's a chance to really reflect on on on the things you do value in life and and kind of check in on what's important and ultimately through a variety of things. Yeah, I the count for healthy lifestyle doing a lot of research and dietary kind of things. I discovered Chiropractic some yoga routine.

Michael [00:34:56] That I found it really helped for me and have worked my way back and work my way back to a very active lifestyle now and we're going to talk a little bit about obstacle course racing and Spartan brand sport, which has become very very big part of my life and with my family and I feel very fortunate to have made a largely a recovery and a lot of modifications, but I can go out and do the things I want to do with my son and have a great quality

Josh [00:35:23] life. All right outstanding man. Oh, yeah back injuries. Oh, man, they are the worst. It was about a year and a half ago. I had suffered a mild herniated disc in my low back. And yeah, it's just kind of the way I was feeling it wasn't quite to the extent how you just described but I just remembered that like trying to roll out of bed first thing in the morning to get going with the day was an ordeal, you know, because you're in yourself just right in the right position in bed where it doesn't hurt and then trying to move away from that.

Josh [00:35:56] It's just awful fortunately it like I said, it was pretty mild. And so the doctor just basically says yeah just a little bit of time don't do anything too strenuous and you know start doing yoga, which is now a pretty big part of my practice even today a lot of a lot of men especially will you know run jokes on yoga, but my goodness the the benefits I've gotten from that, you know, I do that every Sunday now and but so like how long was it for you when you kind of started felt comfortable enough to kind of start taking on these more audacious physical Endeavors, you know, especially obstacle course racing like I can you kind of give us a little bit of a Time window when that all started going down.

Michael [00:36:38] Yeah. I mean, it was really so you lose a lot of strength. I don't know if it's by way of the so several months between the probably most acute injury and and the surgery and so I ruptured to lumbar discs and you pinch those nerves I had Get the sciatic nerve pain, but then you actually start to get numbness and then lose feeling so you're literally killing the nerve.

Michael [00:37:02] So not only is it a recovery of just flexibility and muscle strength core strength all those kind of things. Then you're waiting for nerve regeneration, which can take take years. I think they told me it they give it about a year and a half and that will be the maximum nerve regeneration that you get in my case at a year and a half.

Michael [00:37:24] I still had numbness in my My in my lower foot small, toe things like that and larger that's gone now. So I believe I was able to continue recovery and their recovery beyond that period so I mean literally literally years but even then, you know, there's a constant fear of like am I going to I'm going to blow it out again like I did end up back here again.

Michael [00:37:48] So for a long time, I kind of Switched gears away from some of the things I really really have enjoyed doing sport wise. Like the cycle and so I just kind of started doing more of those kind of things low impact but probably backed off the intensity of some things I liked and then just you know had some friends dragged me out to start playing soccer again.

Michael [00:38:10] And so I mean at this point, we're probably talking like a decade later where I was feeling of feeling flexible enough and and look, you know, yoga, you know crack all the jokes you want but the bottom line is most guys are not very flexible. Sitting in a chair, like most of us do for work. It's just it's bad for your back. It's bad for your health for your posture and flexibility is one, you know, one thing that takes takes a hit in that so there's nothing nothing but good stuff that comes out of flexibility or and to miss AI more broadly.

Michael [00:38:43] So there's a start talking about Spartan Race. There's a Spartan Race. I think he runs a lead or Pro here in San Diego Kevin gelati who posted something on Instagram recently that I love he said, There is zero downside to physical fitness zero because you know, there's only good things you can go out and do fun stuff and I kind of look at flexibility that way to is only good stuff that comes out of it.

Michael [00:39:08] So I was very probably tentative and doing modified stuff for for really like, you know a decade or so and then got back into soccer and five years ago 2015 had some buddies over for Labor Day weekend. I was playing soccer for days a week and these Guys, you're like Hey, we're going out in two weeks to run this thing in San Diego called Spartan Race obstacles.

Michael [00:39:32] You run on a trail. It's a lot of fun. Come join us, you know play soccer for it is weak won't be any problem and that's how I got into this thing. And so that's like 15 years after my injury back feels good at this point had no idea. What a Spartan Race would be like and not in terms of back injury, but just in terms of fitness and a very functional All in different type of what I had been doing exercise wise it absolutely crushed me it crushed me and again go back to the the hurdles or the obstacles in life.

Michael [00:40:08] Literally. You can look at that two ways. You can you can say well that's not for me that was too hard but I looked at as like man, this thing's kind of interesting it really it really kicked my butt. I got to try another one of these so that's what set me down this path.

Josh [00:40:25] Yeah. Yeah, I really like that quote that you just said about that. There's no negative. There's no downsides to being physically fit. I think I'm paraphrasing that but and that's it's interesting how you mention that because that's one of the points that I include in almost like and at least in a fair amount of my solo podcast episodes right talk about self development and I basically say that when it comes to self development the first thing I'd say anyone should prioritize is their physical health because I always say that Body is the vessel with which you do all things.

Josh [00:40:59] If you don't have it running optimally that's going to trickle into just every other area of your life. Whether that's your relationships your career your business your role as a parent, you know, whatever facet you're expected to show up and how you show up in that those areas is, you know affected entirely. I just how physically fit you are. So and of course, we're not saying that everyone has to be like a rip Jack cut shredded bodybuilder. I

Josh [00:41:25] mean they Good if they want to but you know, I just say any Avenue and fitness is valid. I mean you're you're an obstacle course racer. There's crossfitters out there. There's triathletes. There's just maybe some people who you know like to go to Zumba or Pilates, you know, it's all valid. It's like just get yourself move in and reap the benefits, you

Michael [00:41:45] know, yeah a hundred percent hundred percent and and you know, I would I would agree with that and I'll give you a parallel back to some of the yoga stuff I do. So I rarely been to a yoga class. I've got some videos and I found one particular video from from one guy that just works for me for my body.

Michael [00:42:05] And and so I could almost do the whole routine by heart including his commentary at this point. But one of the things he says during this thing is he goes, like don't worry, even if you only get 10% into the stretch you get a hundred percent of the benefit and you know yoga any kind of movement just getting out and walking.

Michael [00:42:25] Enjoying nature fresh air a swim a bike, you know any kind of movement I think is no matter what you do you get a hundred percent of the benefit.

Josh [00:42:35] Yeah, just like showing up and doing the work is a hell of a lot better than if you just stay home and sit on the couch. I remember I did CrossFit in England one time. I like lived in England for a year. I don't know if I mentioned that when you and I were connecting but and there is this one girl that was new to the new to the gym new to the or the Box. Excuse me, you know.

Josh [00:42:55] So so I get it right with the crosshairs and she like it was her first time doing CrossFit and you know, she ended up getting like the lowest scores on like, you know, the lifts and finishing like at the end of the time and everything like that, but I still went over to her and I said, hey good job right on and she says oh, but I've finished last in and everything.

Josh [00:43:18] I'm like, well, you still out lapped everyone who decided to stay home on the couch today. So give yourself some props there.

Michael [00:43:25] Exactly. Yeah right on.

Josh [00:43:27] All right, awesome. So let's go ahead and talk a little bit more about this obstacle course racing and Spartan Racing because you mentioned that you treat had your first one a few years back. So what are some of like the other events that you've done and again, we could probably fill like a couple of episodes on just this one topic alone, but maybe I'll ask you to dial in and say what have been some of the most impactful one's for

Michael [00:43:50] you. Yeah, so I know there are a lot of obstacle course races out there and I actually The Spartans just the one that I got turned on to and and it's an incredible community and culture and a big sin. A lot of the mindset things that have been very helpful for me and that I work with my son and he's racing now to and my wife just done her first one as a Sunday.

Michael [00:44:12] So she's a proud of her for getting outside of her comfort zone. Yeah, and there are others bone frog is one that I'd like to try but the yeah in terms of impactful moments. I think if I pick three or four quick ones one is the first because it got me it got me hooked and thanks to my buddies for for getting me out there and then there are different formats and different lengths.

Michael [00:44:37] So the there is a sort of a short medium and long are the main three and when I did that first long one, it was here in California a Big Bear Ski Resort your up and down the ski mountain. It is a tough one. I think it's probably one of the tougher ones of that 13 Mile distance and I Finished I had no idea how long it was going to take.

Michael [00:44:58] I had a headlamp with me. I was fully prepared to be still out there in the dark with the Bears on Big Bear mountain and I basically finished right at sundown and and there's there was a water Dunk Dunk quality and they call it where you have to go submerge yourself and get wet and it's you know, it's getting down there and temp at that point even in the May and just you know, finishing that thing having the of accomplishment of finishing it after all the things I had to go through training wise and emotionally to stick to this 13th off miles be freezing cold at the end and then have my family there waiting waiting there for me.

Michael [00:45:39] I mean, I think we were all in tears kind of kind of when it was over and and there's just been there's been a lot of very similar kind of emotional experiences to it racing in Sparta Greece was three three very long races in two days kind of had some Emotions to them when when you and I were in Tahoe I did the ultra format, which is 50 kilometers 31 miles.

Michael [00:46:03] It's a whole nother whole nother animal to get through emotionally and then maybe best of all is I get some very strong emotions around my own racing but watching my son do what he does. That's probably the best of all all right right on,

Josh [00:46:20] you know, it's I had this thought when I was in Tahoe because like taco I'd only did like the VIP super event, you know, the 8-mile one that they had their but I remember it was really really tough because you know, I live in Florida. So I'm a flatlander. Okay, you know, I'm at sea level and then here I am going up to like 6,000 plus feet in elevation and it was 90 degrees two days before the race when I was still in Florida and then it dropped down to 40 the day of the race to and so I had a hard time with it, but It's still in there were so many people there and it was just it's been crazy how obstacle course racing has grown so much over the years but it's still kind of begs.

Josh [00:47:05] The question is why do so many people pay their good hard-earned money and commit possibly like vacation time from work and stuff like that to literally go suffer at these of these events. I mean, it's kind of an interesting I'd almost are say phenomenon, you know, so but what do you think have been what was Ben you like your wife?

Josh [00:47:25] Why overall to just consider or excuse me to continue going to these races again, you know paying the money putting in the time putting in all the effort to go suffer. I mean, I'm kind of curious right?

Michael [00:47:39] Yeah. Maybe I'm not quite right and in the head and my wife might second that but you know, I think somehow as humans ultimately we really were wired to do hard things. I think we're We thrive in survival and the the complacency when things get too easy when we get too complacent when when life doesn't really present challenges.

Michael [00:48:07] I feel like we're not as happy and fulfilled as when we are through taking down life's obstacles and some people say that you know, when you don't go Creator find obstacles life will find other ways to throw them at you. So I'd almost rather, you know, go after the Third crucibles I you know, I tend to sort of hang out in the Physical Realm because I'm comfortable getting uncomfortable physically, you know other like my wife would be a lot more comfortable doing a multi-day silence Retreat, you know, so I want to push myself into some other areas like that that are uncomfortable.

Michael [00:48:45] So there are lots of ways to go at this but I think generally as humans there's something about the way we grow there's something about adversity that helps Us Thrive and clearly Spartan in these races. I think it's one of the fastest growing sports in the world is such an adventure. It's great to train for while you're doing it.

Michael [00:49:08] Sometimes you doubt the reasons that you're there but that again, you know makes you makes you understand your purpose. It makes you think about your y it you have to do things in your head while you're going through something like that to kind of get through it in good. A shape and then when you're done, it just feels it feels so good and my wife sent something to Joe to Senna the founder and owner of Spartan Race online not too long ago just saying thank you.

Michael [00:49:37] It's in the sense that what he had created has brought us together as a family to travel and do these things. We have the memories and you know, like like any kind of travel. I think a lot of the values is in the memories and when you have a family it's not about the possessions, you know. Not about things like that.

Michael [00:49:57] It's more about the time you spend together and the memories you're creating and for us, it's not just let's drive down the road to a Spartan once a year. We use this now as our adventure travel and our way to make memories together around this event.

Josh [00:50:12] Yeah, it's I was just thinking as you were saying that I remember being up in those Hills in Tahoe and just you know freeze in I was shivering and I just I just fell in the water and then I had to roll in her. Neith, like I'm all the time although the wires and stuff like that. And I remember in my mind. I was thinking man.

Josh [00:50:33] This is awful man. I can't wait to be done with this. But then once it was all actually over the only thoughts were going through my mind was okay. That was awesome. When can I do that? Again? It's interesting how it works out and you know going back to also your point where you mentioned that in this day and age that we have a set up to where we can avoid, you know challenges and uncomfortable situations if we want it's not like, Ancient ancestors had you know run down these massive animals to you know, hunt them and kill them for food or having to spend all the time in the forest foraging for all these plants that you need to it's like you can just push a few buttons on your phone and someone's bringing a ready-made meal to your door, right?

Josh [00:51:11] So so we pretty much have we have to manufacture, you know hardship and this day and age to build our strength and Harden our resolve and and things like that. So is this really interesting how you know, Things have changed as technology has grown and you know, just how these events that other people have created kind of allow us to kind of I guess tap into our more primordial side.

Josh [00:51:36] If you I mean we can go down a huge Rabbit Hole there, but I'm sure that's probably what maybe a lot of people were thinking as well when they decided to sign up.

Michael [00:51:44] Yeah, I think another, you know, another aspect of it and this is also I think true of any kind of international travel or Circle back to kind of where we started the conversation. Nation is you start to deal with hard things or things that are different are uncomfortable. And at least for me and I think for a lot of people it puts puts everyday life in perspective, you know, you come home and you probably come home with some packing some things that you learned that you enjoy overseas, you know, as you experience new food or culture or places or whatever it might be and then you also come home realizing some things that you didn't like as much as you do like at home.

Michael [00:52:25] It makes you appreciate them even more when you have that perspective. So I also think you know going through the hardships of travel the unknowns or going through manufactured crucibles doing hard things like that helps you come back to Everyday Life with a little more perspective, you know, you have a little more patience with your kids with traffic with things that are tough at work and you go like, you know, Josh just didn't eat nine miles in the freezing cold up and down a mountain and in Tahoe, you know, what force In traffic for five minutes like not not a big deal just brings that

Josh [00:52:59] perspective. Yeah, and I kind of had something like that happen recently to recently. I got a flat tire on my vehicle and I was on my lunch break and I knew I was going to be late getting back to work because I had to change this tire and but I'm like that. You know what I've gone through a lot worse than this, you know, like this is nothing because also as you've mentioned that life is inevitably just going to happen if we don't seek out challenges ourselves, you know life say However, you want to call it is going to throw them at us whether we like it or not.

Josh [00:53:29] But once we seek out these challenges ourselves, we kind of began to inoculated ourselves against challenge in hardship like you mentioned and that when these things inevitably do arise again, whether we like it or not, then it's not going to be that big of a deal we were able to kind of because of how we built ourselves up or able to sort of soften the blow if you will.

Michael [00:53:53] Yeah, I think you put those in the memory. I can kind of refer back. You know, I now that I got my son doing this to I like to work with him on the mindset side of racing and then you know, we can bring that back to soccer we can bring that back to school we can bring that back to how he's behaving. You know, when he talks to talks to Mom and the mindset around those things or you know, you just go back to kind of things you file away in the memory bank.

Michael [00:54:18] Hey, remember when this happened and you lost it in this race in Hawaii, but when you put that in perspective the next day you came back and you killed it, you know, so, okay. Now let's fast-forward fine. You failed an obstacle. That's what they're there for, you know, you learn from them and you learn from your past mistakes and the things that they grew out of those and you know, you just extend those whether it's in sport or life or relationships or whatever. It

Michael [00:54:45] might be.

Josh [00:54:46] Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah a lot of valuable life lessons that we've been able to take from our conversation today, you know, not only just with your World Travel going around for the seven months that you were telling us about but also in the obstacle course race is so and it looks like you're not slowing down anytime soon. You know, we're kind of getting this in right away early off in the year because I know you got a pretty booked calendar.

Josh [00:55:10] So tell us a little bit about what you got coming up. What's in the pipeline as far as obstacle course racing goes.

Michael [00:55:17] Yeah. I got I got a kind of a crazy you're going on all around. I got to figure out where I'm going to fit it all in last year. I I'd a sub-branch even a little bit broader. But last year I did a seal fit 12 hour overnight boot camp event. You went through Marines and did the real deal. I just, you know played at it for 12 hours.

Michael [00:55:39] So isn't it in a way? It's a lot of fun. At least. I knew it was going to end, you know, 12 or so hours later. So looking at maybe doing a 24-hour version of one of those this year, which was my way of helping prepare for that 31 miles. Martin last year, and I also did Spartan has some endurance events for 12 and 24 hour or so.

Michael [00:56:01] Those are kind of cross cross training. If you will I am super excited to let off the gas pedal a little bit in the middle of this year and go join Patrick Sweeney and some others at a conference out in Martha's Vineyard in June. But besides that it is it is pedal to the floor on a Spartan Racing this year I am.

Michael [00:56:26] I'm shooting at 13 trifectas, which is 39 races in lieu of a few of those 13-mile beasts. So Trifecta is a short medium and long all in the same calendar year. I'm going to do that 13 times, but I'm going to substitute for three or four of those 13 milers a few 30-31 milers the 50k Ultra Beast was you don't get any extra credit for but you're also putting it at risk because if you don't make your cutoff time, she I don't get credit for the 13 miles.

Michael [00:56:58] You're just you know credited also trying to go big on that I run. So I'll run some extra laps. Like I did this weekend with my wife and a client and trying to put in about 50 Spartan races this year 2020 is the 25th hundred anniversary of the Battle of Thermopylae the battle 300 sweet and those guys hiked.

Michael [00:57:21] I want to say they March 378 kilometers from Sparta to Polly so my goal is to put in 378 not kilometers, but 378 miles worth of Spartan Racing this year and and close out the season with with Sparta Greece to do the trifecta World Championship in November. So going to be a very very busy race year.

Josh [00:57:43] Yeah, it sure sounds like it. Well, I certainly wish you well and you know wish you safe passage as you go about doing that that's going to be pretty

Michael [00:57:51] awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

Josh [00:57:53] All right. Well before we get to The wrap up here. I do want to give you a couple of minutes to tell us a little bit more about man of Mastery, you know, as I've introduced to you at the start of this conversation that you are the creator of so, so tell us a little bit about that. I know it consists of a Blog and a podcast and a few other things so, you know by all means, you know, give us a little bit of a synopsis on Matt of Mastery.

Michael [00:58:14] Yeah. No problem II appreciate it. I really enjoyed being here to talk to you about about Adventure travel and you know life is an adventure and we worked in a couple aspects on that and really all about you. And your audience and that travel theme but I appreciate the opportunity to share a little bit about myself as well. You know, a lot of this is really culminated into this thing.

Michael [00:58:35] I called man of Mastery very tongue-in-cheek sort of cheesy title. So like we were talking about early on as you just lean in and start, you know start after it and it looked it up. It was available. Boom go with it, you know figure out best but it's really the Mastery component is what it's sort of about and Fired by this concept of life being a journey and success success being a process not a point in time and life is is not an end State.

Michael [00:59:07] It's it is a journey and it has setbacks and plateaus and so really, you know, this is in I think the podcasts are world and a lot of maybe marketing and consumer engagement. We talked about the Avatar sort of understanding your audience. And I think most of us talk to ourselves, you know versions of ourselves.

Michael [00:59:29] So right for me, this is guys that have progressed at some point in their life and maybe now have the opportunity or the time or the Leisure to step back a little bit and go. Okay. What am I going to do? Next? What's my next adventure? Where am I going? Next? What do I want? The legacy of my life to be?

Michael [00:59:49] What was my purpose? And what do I want to spend? You know some some years in the future doing? And so really it is about that Journey. It is about mindset and it's about how to apply that mindset in life and it really is about the adversity through growth sort of concept we were talking about so mostly I think it resonates with with an audience kind of like us have a website at man of on social media at the man of Mastery on Facebook and Instagram.

Michael [01:00:25] Um and then a weekly podcast, we're really my my Cadence my goal. My discipline is about getting out there learning from all different kinds of people about all different kinds of things. It really just come back to how do we show up in life as a better version of ourselves every day, you know just work on those little incremental changes to be a better father a better husband better at work all those kind of things and ultimately my hope is she The things that I find that are working for me that other people might also find useful and valuable whether that's kind of kind of midlife guys like me or helping my son out or guys that can kind of get ahead of the curve a little earlier in life.

Michael [01:01:11] So yeah love for love for your audience to connect with us and tune in and see what we can do for them as well.

Josh [01:01:19] All right. Well, I'll get all of that linked up in the show notes for this episode. So our listeners can go and find them there. R well as we wrap up here Michael, I just have a few remaining questions for you. And one of the things that I like to do with my guess is have them issue a challenge to our listeners because we've obviously talked about a lot of great topics today and we passed on a lot of great information today as well.

Josh [01:01:43] But all that can only go so far right, you know, we have to follow it up. It's the action that makes the difference not the knowledge, you know knowledge must become action. So what I'd like to ask you is what Challenge would you issue to our listeners for them to start living a more adventurous life?

Michael [01:02:01] Yeah. Absolutely completely green. It's all about the action and travel is a great one. Like we said early on I think it packages up so many areas of learning, so I would say go set a scary goal for yourself no more than 18 months out, and maybe it's international travel.

Michael [01:02:21] Maybe. It's an obstacle course race. Maybe it's a silence Retreat Maybe. It's opening your mind to yoga just find something that seems really uncomfortable and and create your adventure put it on the calendar and then make a plan on how you're going to get from here to there because again that end state is is fun. But it's all about the journey between here and there.

Josh [01:02:43] All right absolutely couldn't agree with you more there right on. All right. So what I have next for you is what I call my final three. These are three questions that all of my guests get asked at the end of the show. I like to think that they're fun. Chance but maybe I could be subjective but here we go. You're gonna get asked as well. I'll do my best. And the first of those three questions is what is your favorite place that you've been to so far,

Michael [01:03:07] you know, I'll drop back to Nepal. I just think that it's really hard to name one place, but when you can find a place where the mountains are so big you can't even fit them in the frame of a photograph walking around high up in the annapurna's and spit in prayer wheels and and seeing snow capped mountains and meeting the People You Meet it's a special place.

Josh [01:03:33] All right, right on. I actually I'd say that's probably a first for the podcast Michael like we've covered the globe pretty good with the answers to these questions, but I think that's the first one first time someone's mentioned

Michael [01:03:43] Nepal is

Josh [01:03:44] right on. All right, the next question that I have for you. What is one thing on your bucket list that you have yet to do

Michael [01:03:51] man. I got a lot on there, but I'll tell you one that. And maybe it's fear. All right, maybe it's fear base that I kind of keep putting off skydiving and there's a place right down the road here run by some very very very highly skilled competent guys and my my feet my wife even bought me a gift certificate, although oddly enough.

Michael [01:04:13] She bought it the day I up to my life insurance. I'm still not sure what that means. But I just need to I need to get out there and do that one and part of the part of the journey. I've been on came out of some xiety and fear of flying that I developed. So that's going to be one of my ways to face that.

Josh [01:04:29] All right. Well, you're going to have a good time because I'll tell you why it's I've done it twice now. It is pretty nerve-racking because it takes about 15 minutes for the plane to get up the right altitude to jump and you know, that's when the butterflies really said in and even more so once they actually open up the door and your feets just dangling off the side of this open door, but once you actually get out of the plane, you're good because all of that, you know anxiety just gets Replaced with adrenaline and excitement and it's just an absolute Blast from there.

Josh [01:05:00] So just like anything else that we've talked about. You know, it's just it's uncomfortable at first but then once you do it, you wonder why you even nervous in the first

Michael [01:05:07] place. Awesome. All right. Appreciate that. Yeah.

Josh [01:05:09] I'm excited. I'm excited to you know for you for you to go out and do that soon

Michael [01:05:12] spice. I'll check back in with you once I do

Josh [01:05:14] that right on alright and the last of these three questions and this is a two-parter. What is your favorite animal and have you seen this animal in the

Michael [01:05:24] wild? You did throw me this when I thought about it a little bit. So I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of deviate a little bit. I'll just say for some reason. I've always like dolphins. I think they're beautiful animal and and just this idea. It's a mammal and somehow maybe we're closely related to them. I used to live on the beach in Pensacola Florida and I could just see him Swimming by as it worked from home or looked at the beach which was super Majestic.

Michael [01:05:49] But when you ask the question about have you seen the animal in the wild so quick? Sorry, we koalas. I would probably ever name koalas my favorite animal but visited Australia because two years ago with my family and visited some friends there that we met traveling again. It's the people you meet right and and we go driving up in the mountains outside their home and Adelaide Australia and my wife super excited to see a koala and my Halsey buddy is like, you know, listen mate.

Michael [01:06:20] You're going to see one, but you're not going to see it today. You're going to see in the zoo and you're not going to see it in the wild. I've lived here my whole life and my wife's like now we're going to see a koala today and sure enough. He's got the video this like a minute later. We come around the bend of a curve in the mountains. There's two cars stopped and there's a koala trapped in the middle of the road trying to figure out how to get past the guard rail.

Michael [01:06:41] Say what I feel like somehow she's summoned this thing up. So it's crazy.

Josh [01:06:49] Well, hopefully she summons up other cool animals for y'all to see when you got a problem or you know, and Right, right. That's that's cool right on. All right. Well Michael before we close out here. Let's just recap Once Again where our listeners can go to connect with you. So website social media, you know where your podcast is out there on those different platforms.

Josh [01:07:11] How can we reach out connect with you man?

Michael [01:07:12] Yeah appreciate that recap Josh man of Mastery as the podcast you can find it on iTunes and all the major platforms social media. I'm probably most active on Instagram at the man. An of Mastery and the website man of if you're interested in a little bit more about my background story and some additional information.

Michael [01:07:34] I've got up there. I would encourage people tuned in always looking to get better understand the audience deliver value. So feel free to reach out to me by email and by direct message on social media.

Josh [01:07:47] All right, cool. And like I said, I'll get all those linked up in the show notes for our listeners to go and find them there. Well Michael, hey, I tell you what Manny I I enjoyed our conversation today. It's always kind of cool it just you know, share these stories and you know just really kind of recall the life lessons that we've learned along the way, you know, it's not only beneficial if I think for us to ponder on them, but I hope our listeners got some good benefit from it as well.

Josh [01:08:12] And I appreciate you jumping on short notice. I think we only really just kind of just started talking about gosh maybe about a week and a half ago and we kind of got this set up right away. So I appreciate you being flexible there and I'm a just thanks for being here and sharing all this with my Self in the listeners, um, and it's been great.

Michael [01:08:27] No honored to be here super appreciate the opportunity Josh and I feel like we, you know, we spent the whole time talking about me. So I would love to hear more about your adventures at some point. Mine were just for fun. I think you did a lot in service. So maybe we'll get you over on on the man of Mastery podcast and hear more about your

Josh [01:08:45] stories. Yeah, I'd be honored. Absolutely. I appreciate that. Thank you. Alright. Thanks a lot Mike.

Michael [01:08:51] Yeah, you bet Josh. Thanks.

Josh [01:08:53] And so I have to say for now and I'll be back on. With your wisdom Wednesday segment and I'll be back next Saturday with a brand new episode of the blog reading. So be sure to check back into those. But until then I'm Josh Guerrero saying be safe. Happy travels and always move forward.

Michael [01:09:12] Okay, there you have it guys another week in the books. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Josh and the all-around Adventure podcast and that you enjoyed listening to it as much as I enjoyed talking to him. Now. This is the part of the podcast where I usually ask you for ratings and reviews on iTunes. But in this case, I'd like to ask you to go support Josh and the all-around Adventure podcast.

Michael [01:09:33] It's a great show. He's an excellent host. He's got amazing guests and stories and I love the mission. So go connect with him via the website social media. And the podcast with links you can find in the show notes for this one at man of / 0 44. So on the website man of 0 for 4 and in particular make sure you check out his recently announced operation dual track that I mentioned earlier.

Michael [01:10:02] He's hiking the 1,000 mile length of Paraguay and Uruguay this summer to raise awareness and funds for the American veterans archaeological recovery organizations. ocean So otherwise known as a VAR, they're putting vets to work in the field on archaeological projects. And that's doing three things one. Is it offers a new team A Tribe and a connection to is it provides a new Mission and this case to protect cultural heritage and three it sets up possible career choices and future success as a work Endeavor if they if they like archaeology so you can find that fundraiser Link in the show notes as well or you can just go ahead and It directly add forward slash dual truck.

Michael [01:10:49] And also before I wrap up I just wanted to thank you again for your time. If you enjoyed the show. Please help spread the word and share this show with a couple other friends or family members who would enjoy and benefit as well. If you would please take a moment or two to do that. It helps support the cause and help spread the word. Okay, that's it for this week. Make sure you tune in again next Thursday, but until then no excuses get out there and get after it.