“My Why: Live with a front site focus on the enrichment of mind, body, and spirit so I can help others do the same.”

– Dr. John Nichols

Dr. John Nichols is an OB-GYN in Utah and specializes in high risk cases – moms and babies. Because of their overall risk profile COVID-19 is a particular concern right now. While he is not a virologist, he has access to the most current information and experts on behalf of his patients. Additionally, he is an osteopath – meaning that he takes a holistic view of patients and treatment. He’s also a trusted friend, fellow coach, surfer, and super experienced SCUBA instructor. We’ll get him back to hear more about that another time. Today he takes time out from his patients and practice to share more about what we currently do and don’t know about COVID and what do to about it.

“I went to Medical school to help myself and others live the best and healthiest lives possible.”

– Dr. John Nichols


Dr. John Nichols, MD is a practicing OBGYN (Obstetrician & Gynecologist) in Saint George, Utah. He’s the Director of the Laborist and High Risk Obstetrics at Dixie Regional Medical Center and an Associate Clinical Professor at the Still University College of Osteopathic Medicine.

Dr. Nichols is also a licensed and certified Unbeatable Mind coach, former SCUBA instructor, and avid mountain biker, hiker, surfer, and skier.


  • Why COVID “19” – are there 18 others lurking?
  • If the RNA mutates quickly is a vaccine even possible?
  • The latest known on how it’s transferred
  • Incubation period & contagious while asymptomatic
  • Symptoms shared & differing from cold and flu
  • Can my pet catch it or carry it?
  • If needed, the best way to testing and medical attention
  • We currently have no FDA-approved treatment
  • How COVID is treated in Japan with anti-malarial 
  • Best practices for COVID and general health
  • How can we support and assist the medical system?


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Michael [00:00:18] Hey, what's up, guys? This is episode 45 of the man of Mastery podcast where we're putting purpose and passion into action where we Embrace getting out of our comfort zones to grow and we stand ready to learn and ready to lead. In service to others now. This is really timely service to others this past week. Of course Co vid was officially designated as a pandemic by the World Health Organization.

Michael [00:00:41] And I think we're all scrambling to get our heads around it and what it means for a period of time schools are canceled travel perhaps curtailed restaurants closed offices working remotely. So I held off for a few days and getting the weekly episode out on on schedule. Want to track down someone I could bring in and just pick his brain to understand more about what we're facing.

Michael [00:01:07] So this is a guy whose whose purpose is Passion his profession or all about service. Dr. John Nichols is a medical doctor in Utah. He's an OBGYN that specializes in working with high risk cases. In other words moms and babies who could be in the high-risk category for covet and so he's doing his best to stay on top of in facts and developments now, he's not a doctor that specializes in viruses, but he certainly knows a lot more than I do and probably most of us it's also notable that he's in osteopath meaning that he takes a very holistic view of health and medical treatment.

Michael [00:01:46] He's also a just all-around super smart guy. I trusted friend and he's a fellow coach. So I really appreciate his taking time out from his patients and his practice to come spend a little time here share more about what we know what we You don't know and what to do about it. And to let you know in advance the show notes from this one can be found at man of Mastery.com 0:45 where I'll sum up what we learned and that being said, let's Jump Right In with dr.

Michael [00:02:16] Nichols and get an update on this Cove in 19 situation. All right. Hey today, I've got a special edition coming out. I know we've all got a lot on our minds stress worry concern questions about this craziness the craziness world. We live in with code 19 said today.

Michael [00:02:37] I have the honor and pleasure of being joined by a friend and teammate. Dr. John John. Can I say your last name?

Dr Nichols [00:02:45] I'm sure that's fine.

Michael [00:02:46] Okay. Dr. John Nichols welcome. I appreciate it. Thanks for taking time.

Dr Nichols [00:02:49] Yeah,

Michael [00:02:51] so this thing is Yeah, I've got so many questions and I appreciate you picking. Let me pick your brain and figuring out what we can know what we can do about this thing. So just to start with maybe maybe we hit what we know what we don't know and then start talking about things like containment what we do as a society and what we can do as individuals to stay healthy physically and mentally through this thing as a community.

Michael [00:03:14] So this is the the novel coronavirus. It's coded 19 is that mean they were 18 before it. Is this another variant is this This like another evolution of SARS. Why is it covered? 19

Dr Nichols [00:03:29] a very good question. Let me back up just a little bit. I'm OBGYN. I work with high risk obstetrics. So I'm not a virologist but because of the nature what I do with pregnant women, they're more vulnerable to violent affections. And so I kind of on a Frontline doc. So I will give you the information for the way I understand from being someone right in the middle of it and kind of in the Infantry.

Dr Nichols [00:03:51] So my My guys I work with are some of the experts in the world. So I'll just kind of pass on what their past nanami and what we know and how to protect our moms and babies safe.

Michael [00:04:03] Yeah, I appreciate that caveat and I would even expand it a little bit, you know, this isn't supposed to be prescriptive or or predictive. It's just you know, like you said you're on the front line, so you're probably getting some information but people should really listen to to the CDC and their local local experts. But any knowledge, you've got as much a

Dr Nichols [00:04:23] Shadid exactly exactly. So just just a little bit on viruses viruses or like anybody like us they all have a family in a last name like this myth so the Jones or whatever and so there's a within the bat within each viral Family there's different actors. And so the kovin 19 is within a family of viruses and that's it.

Dr Nichols [00:04:43] Yeah, there's that's how it got its name it they identified it and then they give it its name. So it comes from the Cohen family or the tsar's it's part of the Sarge. Family and so the covered 19 viruses exact that's exactly right here spot-on. That's how it got its name. So it's within that same family of viruses

Michael [00:05:02] same family. Okay, gotcha and and just this is probably Way Beyond my my scientific knowledge, but I remember from somewhere way back at school, you know, we talked about DNA and DNA testing and genealogy and all that stuff for ourselves and we talked about RNA and so I read something about the RNA of this virus and that it is Actually mutates frequently every two weeks or so.

Michael [00:05:26] Is this sort of like you hear about people getting the annual flu vaccine but there are so many variations of it the vaccination covers some percentage but there are these different mutations. Is that the idea of how this thing changes

Dr Nichols [00:05:41] exactly, right? Yeah, they can so the Cova did families actually the cold virus or fall within that sink down in might cause the common cold then influenza is a different viral Family. But actors are very similar in your correct with DNA RNA. There's different viruses. They have DNA and then there's some that have a subset of DNA which is RNA.

Dr Nichols [00:06:03] So an RNA virus is it's got RNA as far as its genetic makeup and how it works a little bit differently than a full stranded of DNA type of virus. So,

Michael [00:06:16] okay. So let's not jump too far into the will we won't we ever get a vaccine for this thing? But when you Something that mutates is it really ever possible to have a widely effective vaccination program.

Dr Nichols [00:06:31] Well, you could look at the flu vaccine as an example of that. The reason why we have to get the flu vaccine dearly as because the most mutates so yeah, we can't have a vaccine for a particular virus that we think is coming through but again that will change as if I remove States so would have to come up with different viruses or different vaccine because it changes its structure and how it functions.

Michael [00:07:01] Tasha and if this thing is mutating every two weeks, is that more frequent than like an

Dr Nichols [00:07:06] influenza? Yeah that I haven't read that but yeah just common sense would say that this think me to a pretty quickly. Can we build of II bad? I don't have an answer for you. I don't know.

Michael [00:07:17] Okay. All right. Well, let's jump to some of the numbers. I think we all kind of here. So we start here numbers out of China. I don't know if anybody anybody believes anything out of China. We're trying to listen to CDC numbers. Is as far as transparency and accuracy, I mean, maybe some things are getting down played but I think the mortality rate is running around 2% And then is that right?

Michael [00:07:44] So what I'm hearing

Dr Nichols [00:07:45] that's what we're hearing from the CDC. It's age-dependent. There's been some things I've read articles today that were saying. It's anywhere from 1 percent to five and a half percent 6 percent and again, you look at the different countries and why they seeing Aunt mortality rates has to do with the mean age of the patient that's getting sick.

Dr Nichols [00:08:07] So there's certain countries like Italy that the mean age is in the 60s right in Korean. So they're seeing a higher death rate recreate was much younger. So they didn't see the high death rates. Like we saw in Italy or were seen in Italy. So I kind of explained to the approach that our government is taking his because we had so many in the higher age group that that's the age group.

Dr Nichols [00:08:29] That's most vulnerable.

Michael [00:08:31] Yeah, okay. Let's talk about that a little bit. I mean I did not know that about Korea's age skew but I do know that they have been they've mobilized very quickly on responsiveness of some things like testing much more broadly than we have here so far, but so I did know about Italy skewing to the to the older there's also a big smoking population there as well as in areas of China where the air pollution or air quality is so bad.

Michael [00:08:56] It's the equivalent of smoking so we know Age We Know Things like smoking or maybe other respiratory ailments. What are the things are risk factors

Dr Nichols [00:09:06] risk factors besides age would be someone say that's immune compromised. If you are an HIV patient if you had like say rheumatoid arthritis or lupus or some autoimmune disease where you're putting on medications that put you in a compromised immune suppressed states to control your disease some needs a transplant patient, you know some with diabetes some of Too morbid obesity smoker those those types of people.

Dr Nichols [00:09:37] That just aren't in good health.

Michael [00:09:39] Right, right. Okay. Yeah, I think you hit all my on my list there. I had obesity diabetes respiratory and age hadn't thought about them or just broadly immune compromised. So there's a there was a conference call and or article I think yesterday from Goldman Sachs.

Michael [00:09:58] And what I believe they said to paraphrase is that they've modeled or somehow they've come up with a number of a hundred and fifty million Americans ultimately getting infected and that that 2% rate you figure 3 million deaths, but the way that they don't know spawn it.

Michael [00:10:20] Maybe that's the wrong word is ago. Okay. Look we have about 3 million deaths from you know old age disease. In this country on average per year. So these are sort of the same three million people where something is going to you know, kind of tip them over the edge whether it's pneumonia from some other cause or some other infection or whatever it is.

Michael [00:10:45] So they're basically saying it's not the 3 million that we lose every year plus 3 million more the Cova did that Cove it may be the three million and we may not see an increase death rate overall for For the year,

Dr Nichols [00:11:01] that's an interesting way to do the numbers. No, I didn't see that press conference with that that review I didn't read that that is that's an interesting approach. That's a I'd have to read it to learn more about it. But yeah, I don't I don't know how to comment that that does kind of make sense, but it kind of doesn't and we can probably get into that a bit later when we start talking about why we're doing what we're doing.

Michael [00:11:27] Yeah. Yeah, let's Hold on to that because I think one of the things that that I don't understand about those numbers is when you get to a hundred and fifty million, which is almost half the population, you know sort of what happens at that I would think it would be a Tipping Point, but we talk about the math and how it spreads a little bit more. Let's just maybe we talked a little bit about what we know about how its transferred or

Dr Nichols [00:11:51] transmitted. Yeah. That's that was a big question for us to about a week ago. We We thought it might be aerosol. Which means if you cough it lingers in the air just kind of and then if you walked into that cloud where someone just copped you might get the you'd be exposed to the virus and then be inoculated.

Dr Nichols [00:12:12] We now know it's droplet. So we're initially we were being trained on these respiratory mass that has Health Care Providers. We were having to wear them and seal to our face now. They're they're figuring out that if you need wear those masks if you're doing some type of respiratory. The procedure where the patient's having to do deep breathing coughing the cup up speed on them.

Dr Nichols [00:12:34] But as far as wearing a mask, we're there are now being told that it's because of droplet we can just wear normal surgical masks. So people that would need to wear a mask would be someone who is known in fact it or suspected infected or healthcare worker or someone within six feet of that individual. You also need to wear eye protection because it can be transmitted through through the eyes.

Dr Nichols [00:12:57] But again, it's droplets it. It's picking up those droplets and getting them into the respiratory system. So it's a little bit harder to catch than what we thought but it's still very easy to catch.

Michael [00:13:08] Okay, gotcha. Now these we thought this would droplets versus what was it

Dr Nichols [00:13:12] aerosol Air Assault. So aerosol would be someone coughs and then it just lingers in the air and then you know, you walk into that cloud that they cough into he just got infected but the fees that would be equivalent to that would be TV for tuberculosis. So that would be something that you know, Very easily spread through closer

Michael [00:13:31] contact so and droplets I would think could still be quite small. This is somebody doesn't have to spit in my eye or right lick. My hand.

Dr Nichols [00:13:41] No droplets is yeah. It means that the there's a mucus is in a more of a liquid. It's in the mucus. It's but no it's not. No, it's not a big chunk of you know, some of its biggest bass kind of things

Michael [00:13:55] like, okay, and how about so You know hear about social distancing the 6-foot rule. So what about you know across an inanimate object, you know cell phones after I've touched something else or the groceries. I pick up at the store or the Amazon box that gets delivered.

Dr Nichols [00:14:16] Yeah. Those are all excellent questions. I was listening to the CCDC report on Friday and they've done some testing on inanimate surfaces with just the pure virus and they were quoting a four to six hour. Life of the pure virus living on a on a Surface. In other words, you take pure virus late on the surface come back every hour and and then culture it out and see if it's still there.

Dr Nichols [00:14:40] You're still alive. The interesting thing about viruses is, you know, when someone coughs or sneezes or Breeze that can be covered in a little bit of a protein mucus that can land on the surface and that actually helps protect the virus. So I read the day that there's They're saying that you know four days six days we can live on a Surface maybe even longer.

Dr Nichols [00:15:04] So that's why we're encouraging people to not only wash your hands frequently, but when you're going to touch them and I to you know, wipe it down with you know, your wipes you sure wipes you feel like we go the store wipe down your cart that sort of thing. So I guess potentially could live on an Amazon box if it was several days. Probably not a we know that its heat sensitive.

Dr Nichols [00:15:25] So it was in a you know, like live. They're either the climate's really hot. It's the virus is probably not going to survive a in the hot car, you know in the summer time in Phoenix. It's not gonna do that. That's our assumption. We don't know that but so the testing is all been done on Raw buyers on a Surface. No one's ever really took sneeze on this counter and let's keep testing see how

Michael [00:15:47] long

Dr Nichols [00:15:49] we haven't done that. But so again what we're being told is just Clean your computer screen clean you up you're coming on to work that day and send out to you computer wipe it down, you know keep your cell phones, like down wash your hands regularly this common-sense stuff, you

Michael [00:16:06] know? Okay. Yeah, it's yeah, I mean, I always kind of wondered about the cell phone thing even even before this like, you know, go in the bathroom and they're playing around on their cell phones. Now you come out and wash your hands but you don't you don't wash your cell phone.

Dr Nichols [00:16:19] Yeah. That's e-coli. It's different. That's a net bacteria, you know.

Michael [00:16:25] The different issue

Dr Nichols [00:16:26] GI is equal to

Michael [00:16:28] ro what about so, you know, we talk a lot about exposing people to each other. What about pets?

Dr Nichols [00:16:36] This is a virus that we found highly suspicious that came from bats. That was think that's where it came from. We don't know if there's enemy you're a host. So Ana Mari host would be like with type would be your rat, you know something that can Cats everyone worries about cats they can pick up different things and they poop and then they walk on your countertop and then they spread their feces and then you touch wherever they were, you know, the cat be the intermediate host. You

Dr Nichols [00:17:09] know, they eat the mice they process the mice and then they're the PCS they spoke to you so we don't know what the intermediate host is if there is one so Theory theoretically I guess your pet could become ill but we just don't know yet.

Michael [00:17:23] I don't know, okay. Yeah. No, I mean I think about that in terms of being a pet owner. But also when we start talking about how we get this thing under control if it could spread into birds or other wild animals or whatever right then then then it's just yeah kind of out there. Yeah, what about incubation period what do we know about that?

Dr Nichols [00:17:42] But the human were thinking that's the shortest incubation after exposures been about two days and the longest is about 11 11 to 12 Days average is five and a half days. If you're exposed in five and a half days. You're going to start having Any symptoms, that's where the mean is for the for becoming symptomatic, but it can last much as twelve.

Dr Nichols [00:18:03] So hence when the 14-day rules coming in, so if you're exposed and 14 days, you should have either incubated out now showing symptoms and are you okay

Michael [00:18:13] got it. And so what's known about when we're contagious or infectious during that period

Dr Nichols [00:18:20] you're contagious before you symptomatic. We know that kids are carrying. There's these these young children can carry it not even get sick and they're sharing the virus. We do know that once you become symptomatic your viral load or the amount of viruses that you would say cop-out or sneeze out as tremendously high. It's just as you become more symptomatic you start shedding more virus, but what you've been exposed and you start your body starts processing the BIOS then provide a story or viral and starts to affect you, you know our infectious.

Dr Nichols [00:18:54] You can pass it on without even knowing it and

Michael [00:18:57] that's not even knowing it right in that period of time when it's your infected. It's incubating you're contagious and then as you become symptomatic it you're potentially still contagious for a period of time and that tails off as your body's processing it.

Dr Nichols [00:19:12] Correct. We're learning that there are some people that depending on the treatment modalities that were how sick they were and how they were treated different medications that may have been exposed to they may be long-term care. So we're learning now not to give steroids. That's the current recommendation to someone where would normally treat someone with the pneumonia with some steroid to help them.

Dr Nichols [00:19:34] We're learning that those those people are becoming chronic carriers or long-term carriers longer than we'd expect them to be. So for that is a possibility.

Michael [00:19:44] Hmm interesting. Okay, and so I mean a couple of the things that seems like we're trying to manage here. So trying to manage the spread. We're trying to manage the The the rate of the impact on the healthcare system and the capacity to deal with that and it seems like part of that is we're trying to manage the availability of testing right now.

Michael [00:20:05] So how you know, there's talk about this sort of triage or pre diagnostic Google website. So how do people start to know or think about how this thing is different than the flu or colds right? Because we're in the same. I am cold and flu season that we get every year.

Dr Nichols [00:20:28] Yeah, that's a very good question because the symptoms are very similar. You really can't delineate that. This is kovin 19 or the regular flu or say the common cold or analogy allergies. That's a little bit easier allergies going to start out with the runny nose your red eyes itchy throat. It's not sore throat. It's just regular allergy symptoms, you know, you're not going to have a fever.

Dr Nichols [00:20:51] You just not going to have those more aggressive symptoms. That you're going to have with the with either a viral infection or this Cove in nineteen virus. We know that when it hitched most people are going to have a fever that can happen with other viral infections. Say the flu or the cold but the majority whelming most common serious symptom would be fever and then cough and sore throat.

Dr Nichols [00:21:18] So if you start to have the muscle aches myalgias, so those are the symptoms were looking for and again, they're very similar. The viral illnesses. So if you start having those symptoms, we need you to call into your either your Physician's office your personal Physician's office or different Healthcare Systems have set up numbers that you can call 800 numbers that will walk you through the process to see number one.

Dr Nichols [00:21:44] Do you need to be tested and then what to do next the you need to come in and be seen or not be seen because we don't if you don't need to be seen we don't want you in or around. Around the Healthcare System you tell there's something that we can do for you.

Michael [00:22:00] Right. Yeah in both ways right exposing yourself or or vice versa so cough and or fever are the biggest sore throat and and muscle aches potentially additionally. So I'm just reading this email. I just got from my local emergency care facility Doc in the Box here and it seems like it describes sort of that same decision tree that you just mentioned if So the first thing they're doing is administering a flu test and if it's positive for flu, great, we treat that if it's negative, but you still have a fever and or cough then they've got a decision to make about whether they test you for covet or not.

Michael [00:22:47] And and it seems like from what these guys are saying. They're going to make that decision based on you personally what your risk maybe I don't know if it's risk for mortality or what risk assessment they're doing about Our or not they're going to administer the coded test. So are we still at a massive shortage of ability to test

Dr Nichols [00:23:07] for my understand the word limited on the numbers of tests? We have I don't know if I'd use the word massive shortage. What we're doing is we're triaging people as you mentioned into a triage tree or an algorithm that says ok this person. We're going to test what's determining in my area. What's going to be tested? First of all symptoms what your symptoms are then we're going to ask Ask, you know what your travel what's your risk of exposure?

Dr Nichols [00:23:35] You know, if you've been exposed to someone with the virus if you haven't been exposed, it could travel to that area that's been exposed to some of these traveled into the areas where we know that are called quote-unquote hot zones. And then we're testing a bit more aggressively than just for the flu. We're running in my area. We're running the complete biology screen for any upper respiratory tract infections.

Dr Nichols [00:23:57] If that comes back positive then we're assuming that that's what it is. The cold virus the flu virus rhinovirus is you know, so any one of those show up then we're assuming that's it and treat it like you just said there have been some cases where you're very rarely does the Covent show up with other viruses, but it could but again that's why we're asking your history of the possible exposure at this point.

Dr Nichols [00:24:25] My guess is that will change. Just becomes more prevalent in the community that no longer that travel history of exposure is just going to be relevant. But right now it is so that's how we're doing it and then so if you go down the foot of the decision tree and everything is yes, then we'll test you for the cold virus.

Dr Nichols [00:24:47] But we want to do all the most most the triage over the phone before we have you come in hospital in mind that we actually have a drive-through testing if you need two criteria, they're going to catch the right there. So that's kind of where we're at. I don't know what it's like the rest of the country.

Michael [00:25:02] Okay? Yeah. No, that's great to know. So I mean one thing I took away from there. I did not know that some areas are doing a call in triage. So it sounds like people would want to check with their Healthcare System their healthcare provider and there are F4 how they're processing

Dr Nichols [00:25:17] this correct? That's the first thing you do is call your provider or call the hotline. Like let's say if you got whatever your insurance company is go to their hotline, or you can go to the CDC. They can put you through the triage and you can figure out now yes, I need to come in to be tested now. I don't feel that again based on symptoms will be based on your travel in the risk.

Michael [00:25:39] That's man. You say CDC. I'm just thinking fucking bats like the only time I've had to deal with the CDC before as well. I got bitten by a bat and I had to get I had to get rabies vaccinations.

Dr Nichols [00:25:50] Yeah, no. Yeah, but that's where we think it came from this past.

Michael [00:25:56] So there's a difference I to my understanding between exposure contamination and infection, right? So is it true that not everyone exposed will end up infected.

Dr Nichols [00:26:09] That's true.

Michael [00:26:12] So yeah, just kind of realize as as I start thinking about some of the models I've seen on containment / sort of avoidance. So lets you know sort of maybe move to that. We I think we've all heard about this idea of flattening the curve meaning slowing the spread which I think is is the over riding philosophy but behind some of the things we're trying to implement this country other countries are doing it differently the you UK seems to just be trying to you know, sort of take take their licks and let it spread and let let our immune systems handle it.

Michael [00:26:50] So what's your take from what you know on how this fits together with the with an international travel ban, is that that's sensible. Is it effective? I mean the things already here.

Dr Nichols [00:27:01] Yeah is effective. It's not effective if you want if you look at a view from 10,000 feet, it's common. You know, it'll be here and it's going to be in our community and it's such a highly contagious and it will be spread but it does help with how fast it enters the country and what it's interesting.

Dr Nichols [00:27:27] We haven't got enough information that I think to our guard to the people in the country is why are we doing this? The reason is our Healthcare System is limited to the amount of patients that we could take care of. And so that's what we're talking about when we say flatten the curb and you see a lot of things on Facebook. Well, I'll just go out and get exposed. We'll have a chicken pox party and everyone would get you know, like you can we when I was kids, you know, we are one kid had chickenpox or throw us all together with I'll get Chickenpox a week later.

Dr Nichols [00:27:56] We're back in school. Yeah, right a good idea. Now you look back on it. But what you kind of look at is that number we talked about earlier that 2% that 5% of people that are you know die from this. And those people were not easy to take care of. So when you have a percent of population in the Articles, I've been reading or going to be okay.

Dr Nichols [00:28:20] I mean, they're just you're gonna get it. You know, you're going to get over it and be fine. It's when you expose it to the people like, you know the nursing home in Washington, you know, what do you do and if when someone gets sick with this they get something called a RDS or respiratory respiratory distress syndrome where their lungs start to feel the flu? Food and they take can't move oxygen back and forth the membranes become non-functional and so at that point then they have to go on a ventilator and we only have so many ventilators.

Dr Nichols [00:28:54] And so then you get into a position of well, we're running out of ventilators and now we ran out of ventilators and then you're on your motorcycle. You got crashed a motorcycle cleaning out trauma patient. You need a ventilator, you know, we don't have a ventilator. Sorry, you know, that's who do you nice start? About triage of who stays on who goes on the ventilator one who stays who gets to stay on the ventilator.

Dr Nichols [00:29:16] If you have some of it comes in to need the ventilator and so these are decisions that nobody wants to make right. And so if we can control how the virus comes into the community and we can slow that progression and we can protect the people that are at higher risk for never getting the virus. So that's the thought if we can prevent Health quickly it spreads that's we're talking about even the Curve.

Dr Nichols [00:29:41] And protect those that won't get it or the that they'll get it that can become very very ill and then we become inundated. It's interesting to watch human behavior. You know, when you look at the stores and what people are buying we're in the store yesterday, you know all the breads gone, but you have all the cough syrup you need in the people.

Dr Nichols [00:30:03] It doesn't make sense to me that you know, I don't know why people are hoarding that doesn't make sense either we can talk about that but Um, it's we need to just protect the older because when they start showing up at our ER people get sick and they just come to the hospital to come hospital. They spread to everybody not on when we were spreading it to to everybody in the community then the weaker but then the healthcare providers get sick.

Dr Nichols [00:30:27] We only have so many of us around you know, so that's why we're saying, okay, let's limit this because when you do get sick, it's sick and it's real deal and these people are critical. And is you mentioned three million, you know, that's a lot of people on ventilators, you know, it's a lot of people

Michael [00:30:46] so one just one thing you said there. I think there's a gap in in what I in my understanding on the numbers, so they'll be a percentage of people with anything that could be exposed and not get infected and then of people infected like you said there will be children people just were stronger immune systems. They will fight it off that might feel bad the range of symptoms will vary and they'll fight it off and then they will be Will be a percentage of those infected who are very seriously ill and really needs some serious medical treatment and then you know, we're talking about overall something so far.

Michael [00:31:21] It's averaging about two percent mortality rate. Do we know anything about the recovery rate of the people who come in with the serious illness that needs something like a ventilator.

Dr Nichols [00:31:31] We don't that's what we that's what we don't know and I think that's why you're seeing the travel ban and that's why you're seeing people being you know of those. It'll get really really sick. What is your survival rate again? It's going to be kind of on your health going into it. You know, you can be I have friends as we were talking earlier that are 60 years old and can run a six-minute mile, you know, then I got friends that are 40, but the thought of running at 15 minute mile is just not even in their wheelhouse and so it's not just your chronological age in some respect.

Dr Nichols [00:32:04] Although the lungs do get weaker as we get older regardless, but There is a there's also this physiological age versus Chronicle age that for those that take care of themselves are going to do better. And that's I think that's the way your question shooting at is who are those people and how many of those what's the percentage of those people surviving if they do and I'm going away and I don't have that number for you today.

Dr Nichols [00:32:27] It's changing all the time.

Michael [00:32:29] Do we even serve four people that do end up? Let's say on a ventilator some serious level of hospitalized care for this thing. Is there a treatment or is it a matter of trying to let the body have time to get healthy and fight it off.

Dr Nichols [00:32:45] That's a good question right now technically from the FDA. There is not a treatment. You know, there is no FDA approved treatment. There are some drugs out there that were looking at there's some anti-hiv drugs that we think might help there's an antiviral out there that's in some clinical trials right now that may think help and then there's another drug that's really came out of nowhere core Qin or Hydroxy core Court when it's a malaria drug and it's interesting that certain countries are actually implementing that drug.

Dr Nichols [00:33:21] One of those countries was Japan and so are the Japanese numbers better because they had a younger age population get infected or those numbers because they were using this drug and this drug works really kind of cool. How it works in the cell, it actually increases zinc stores within the cell that there's a lot of zinc within the intercellular Matrix of your cells and the virus tries to command the can't replicate because the sink prevents it from replicating.

Dr Nichols [00:33:54] So there's no clinical evidence that we have, you know, statistically that shows that drug Works. Although we do have some anecdotal evidence. We're seeing in some studies now been the might work I might help and it has worked with other coronaviruses in the past or Were there places outside the United States that are currently using it and an adult actually seen some success so that might answer a question that might be one of the drugs that we use that we're looking into.

Michael [00:34:23] So the things like that are getting explored that one in particular. I mean is there is there a downside to it? You know, is there a risk to that to that treatment?

Dr Nichols [00:34:32] That's a drug that we use quite frequently for rheumatological issues lupus is one of them we use it with our Lupus patients in pregnancy. It's a drug that if you were to go to Africa, they would put you on it's an anti-malarial drug. So you would take one pill a day or one pill a week a couple weeks before you go and use take it for you there.

Dr Nichols [00:34:53] So it's got a long-term safety record. But yeah, there are some risks to the drug. One of them is if you have certain cardiac arrhythmias, if you take it it can put you into a lethal cardiac arrhythmia. So you got to your doctor needs to know your history and what's going on and he's can You know right up the street and start taking it. There's some you know, there's you got to be worked out by a position to make sure it's safe to yeah.

Michael [00:35:18] Yeah. Yeah. I mean you guys have a very complicated job. Every patient is is obviously a little different maybe if I want to springboard from the the zinc to maybe some other things that we might do just preventatively for for health. But before that just made me think about and let's talk about the hoarding stuff in a few minutes to but just supply chain for for medicine and other supplies that you guys use so for example or not, that's true or not.

Michael [00:35:47] But I heard or read somewhere recently that the crash cart drugs that you guys would use in emergency room are largely generic and sourced manufactured now in China, right? So if the global impact of this thing starts to shut down Supply chains of different sorts, have you guys seen or do you have any concern about the supply?

Michael [00:36:07] In for hospital supplies and Medicine

Dr Nichols [00:36:10] currently that that is the theory that we could see that the answers in theory. We could it's not just those types of drugs before even long before we saw this this virus outbreak or this epidemic pandemic now that we're seeing we had drug shortages of all kinds of drugs.

Dr Nichols [00:36:32] I mean doxycycline the basic antibiotic cheaply made in United States to ensure is that so We're not that's not new to us. So I guess when you look at supply chain and could that disrupt the supply chain? Yes, it could but those drugs if I guess we could make him hear the United States pretty easily if we needed to it's just going to be a cost issue from my understanding.

Dr Nichols [00:36:57] I know that there's current. Antihypertensive drugs are drugs that treat hypertension that at least in my area. There's been some generic uptake companies and start making it so it didn't take very long to get that up and going but you're right that could be a theoretical concern as our supply chain pins down and if we can't get them from China, I guess, you know, I don't agree. I

Dr Nichols [00:37:20] could be a concern but right now we're not that's on our radar of worries, but it's not a it's not a concern today as of our discussion right now.

Michael [00:37:29] Yeah. All right. Thanks and and obviously can't predict what's going to happen. But good to know that that that's a type of manufacturing. We've seen spun up in the past. I mean you think about something like auto manufacturing largely going overseas. It's not as easy just to get that back up and running. Okay, so so zinc and maybe this is a different type of thing, but I know I've seen zinc products that are potentially taken to reduce the time.

Michael [00:37:56] You're affected by the seasonal cold. Alright, there's all these things stuff over the counter, you know vitamin C. I've read stuff about B1 which things thiamine vitamin D. I think even you know, when our son was was an infant or maybe not an infant but at a young age is his doctor recommended D supplements for boosting the immune system or we just get outside right and get some sleep.

Michael [00:38:25] Done and make vitamin D ourselves. What kind of things like that are just sort of good proactive medicine if you will for our health

Dr Nichols [00:38:33] vitamin C is always if the nice thing about vitamin C is water soluble. So if you take too much of give a nice run a diarrhea or your kidneys will get rid of it. I mean, it would be really hard to overdose on vitamin C. So a thousand milligrams a day not gonna hurt anybody and only going to help, you know, unless yeah, there's really no downside to vitamin.

Dr Nichols [00:38:56] The zinc we know that zinc is can't be the zinc lozenges can be a little bit of protective in the mucus that can protect how the virus penetrates mucus that's kind of how we think it works. But again the Zeke housing quirks it needs to be to be effective like the drugs we were talking about it needs to be in the cell.

Dr Nichols [00:39:16] So that's where these joints become effective. So I think think again not a bad idea to take a normal zinc supplement mcinerney thing might help other things of things that you and I do every day get up have a routine eat healthy food fresh water, you know hydrate hydrate hydrate antioxidants healthy diet exercise.

Dr Nichols [00:39:43] I can't you know, Besides enough a healthy lifestyle wash your hands, you know regularly just you know, that's just its basic Common

Michael [00:39:55] Sense could practice. Yeah. Yeah. I went to the grocery store the other night and like you said the bread aisle is gone like all this processed sugar basically as sold there were heaps of fresh vegetables organic and conventional. So I had my run on the on the produce aisle. No problem.

Dr Nichols [00:40:15] Yeah, we can talk about that. If you want. I'm not quite sure why people feel we need so much hoarding. I get it if you're going to be quarantined to your home, but I mean just think about just look what's going on today just in the world. I mean if you want order out from the take out there still allowing restaurants in San Francisco to either you drive by pick up where they bring it to your house.

Dr Nichols [00:40:42] So if the restaurants are getting food the supply chain, Intact, but the problem is is when you stress the supply chain, like we've done you know, it's only so much they can keep bringing to you and you know, they have projection models of how much they're going to make of this or that and once it's gone and we're going to have to speed up production in some products. We can do that very well another product you can but the the I take away what you said.

Dr Nichols [00:41:05] Yeah. Our vegetable II was really nice with the exception of potatoes and onions and if you don't have a root cellar for those not to go bad. I don't know how much Get a hundred pounds potato in your you know, it's not going to help you. There was also interesting to me. I walk down the baking aisle and all the flower was gone, but there was plenty of salt there's plenty of oil and there was plenty of yeast.

Dr Nichols [00:41:30] So for those that what are you going to do with all that flour? If you can't make bread if you can't make pancake batter if you can't make whatever you're going to make pizza dough. I don't know whatever they're thinking they're going to make out of that flower. You need basic other ingredients to make it. So again, we go to the pharmacy aisle, and there's all the cough syrup in the town the Motrin and you know, everyone's and then the water thing I still would this does not affect our water supply Water Supplies from the United States for most part should be like would be safe.

Dr Nichols [00:42:06] So horny know that water is really It really it where it's not an earthquake. It's not a flood. It's not a hurricane. You know, that doesn't make sense toilet paper still to make sense to me. I you know, everyone's hoarding toilet paper. I yeah, if you're going to be sequestered Max is going to be 14 days even still you can even San Francisco where they blocked the city down there still allowed to go into some shopping so that again it doesn't make sense to hoard all this stuff where people are now going without I have a patient who needs Formula for her baby.

Dr Nichols [00:42:41] It's a special formula that you can buy at Walmart. That's it. It's gone. She can't feed her baby down. So I don't like the hoarding thing. I still can't I haven't put my wire people feeling like they got to buy we have people here might down by an extra freezers and filling it with me. Justice isn't the apocalypse. It's we're just going to get through it like a anything else.

Dr Nichols [00:43:03] I'm not quite sure. Maybe you can help me understand that.

Michael [00:43:06] Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I've got any answer indicative of the extreme or even an Insight on it, but I guess a couple things that come to my mind would be that getting through something like this with calm and cooperation take some leadership.

Michael [00:43:25] And in my own opinion, we don't have strong decisive leadership over the country on this matter right now. There's a lot of waffling and I get that it's a volunteer fireman and there's new information every day, but the policy Is and what's projected and what spoken about seem to swing and so I perceive I think there is a concern of you know, what is coming.

Michael [00:43:50] So it's close the national borders. Do we do we sequester Regional or state level travel do eventually just order everyone sequestered? And so, you know, if something like that becomes necessary or as possible, I guess my question and maybe people have the same question or concern is if you take that to an extreme. Do you sequester everybody?

Michael [00:44:11] Right? So does that literally shut down your restaurants your grocery? I don't know your water your sewer your trash your critical infrastructure for 14 days. So do people need to be prepared for at least 14 and are they Thinking Beyond that so that's where I think the the mentality may come

Dr Nichols [00:44:29] from. Well, I get that I guess there's going to come a point where shutting things down is no longer going to help. I mean if you think about it, once the virus is here in a certain concentration it's here and so shutting things down really isn't going to help for say because of the volume of diseases here again, what we're trying to prevent is those that are going to be the sickest from inundating the healthcare system.

Dr Nichols [00:45:00] So the people that we probably should be most worried about in sequestering most aggressively would be anybody over 60 anybody would help issues anybody that You know the risk for dying or those are the people we need to protect. So if I was going to sequester anybody to be them and say look, yeah, you guys are going to put you someplace safe, you know, you have to follow these parameters.

Dr Nichols [00:45:28] But yeah, I don't anyway, that's my mind. I see it kind of like you do. We need a little bit more leadership. Call me leadership. Look it's gonna be okay. Jordy of us are going to get through this we're going to be okay unless there's something that I don't know about right now. I mean, I just can't that's just sort of think it's going to happen.

Dr Nichols [00:45:48] We're going to be for to be fine. And you're right. We should all if I looked at what do we need right now? Everyone should probably have a one meal a day for 14 days for each person in your household. That's pretty basic. You know, I think we all can have that her home medicine wise probably, you know, Tylenol cough suppressants.

Dr Nichols [00:46:09] We're learning. There's been some reports about Motrin than this disease. I don't I don't know how to advise you there. But again, it's a good antipyretic or any type either medication. So check with your doctor before you would take that if you have asthma and have an extra asthma inhaler if you have chronic medications that have a 30 to 60 day supply of your chronic medications, and then as far as food goes, you know breads gonna last a couple of days price, but you know, like we're talking about the potatoes and the onions that can all go bad.

Dr Nichols [00:46:39] Spoil on you. So I kind of take the chopped Champion approach to shopping if you ever watch chopped. I just kind of when I go shopping I look at it because I'm a chef. It's my hobby. I think what five things can I make out of this one ingredient. So I want basic ingredients. I want beans I'd want rice. I want like a flower. But again, I get the stuff to buy bread like oil and salt and seasoning pepper that sort of thing so I can take one raw product and make several meals out of it, right?

Dr Nichols [00:47:11] You know dry milk would be something nice to have that's the mentality. I think we should have and then buy stuff that you would normally eat. So once you have your 14 days Supply keep a good inventory and then as you deployments your supply go out each week and by which you use the maybe just a percentage more five or maybe 10% more until you have a little bit more Supply in your home.

Dr Nichols [00:47:37] That way you're not in the dating this Watching and then they can't keep up with the demand. It's basic stuff people that grew up under I grew up in the Mormon culture and we were taught to keep a two-year Supply. I think that's a little aggressive but I think if you have a 14 day supply on on hand and then you slowly add to that over the next several weeks to months get up to a month supply over a long period of time that makes sense, you know, and then someone needs help.

Dr Nichols [00:48:09] Be able to share with me,

Michael [00:48:11] right? Yeah, I definitely get having having some cushion. I don't get the the humanity of of fighting over, you know Stacks and stacks of toilet paper from from Costco or wherever

Dr Nichols [00:48:23] yeah hand sanitizer, you know hand sanitizer that that actually is good. But washing your hands is better. That's just you know, wash your hands frequently. Yeah. I've heard reports. You can make your own hand sanitizer isopropyl alcohol and everyone out about asked for Alpha. Will has to be at least a 60 percent concentration to work.

Dr Nichols [00:48:43] So once you start diluting down your isopropyl alcohol may not be affected with that. Yeah, but I guess you know, there's some mentioned you could buy a bottle of Everclear which is a 90 Proof very inexpensive. But again, it makes

Michael [00:48:58] sense and you make punch out of it, right?

Dr Nichols [00:49:00] Yeah. The most is all over we can make Poncho for really goes to down and then we can make it

Michael [00:49:04] fun. That's like a hurricane party. What about I don't know if you have the answer on this. Us but you mentioned prescriptions and make sure you have your prescription on hand. If you've got something that runs on a rotating 30-day refill our doctors able to extend that to 60 days now or some consideration like that.

Dr Nichols [00:49:24] We are yes, it's the pharmacy that's limited by your insurance plan. That is not got it we can write for 90 day supply hundred and twenty days Supply. It's it's the insurance company that's reimbursing the pharmacist that tells them. Many they could give you I talked to a pharmacist last week and with an initial prescription safer hypertensive medication.

Dr Nichols [00:49:49] They have to give you 30 days when you go back to refill it and they can give you a 90 days based on particular insurers. If you're on a very inexpensive ask the pharmacist what the cash price is if they're not going to give you a 90-day Supply and then ran some medicines are very reasonable and generic is you know, you can afford a 90-day Supply and then there's that are like Bulb, that's my Heritage plus that you know, I mean right and you trust fund to pay for it.

Dr Nichols [00:50:15] But yeah, you can have some pharmacist to help you do that.

Michael [00:50:20] Yeah, that's good to know. I didn't realize it was more limited by the insurance reimbursement and I had not thought about the cash thing before. I don't remember what it was last time. I got a prescription for something. I think I tore myself up in a Spartan Race when I broke my finger and and split it open and and got an Eric and I'm standing there forever at the pharmacy whether trying to look up my insurance, you know to be able to charge me 15 bucks for this thing.

Michael [00:50:48] And finally I was like dude I got to get out of here. What's the cash price and they're like, oh five dollars. Like why do you tell me that the first place going to save $10 and the last half an hour of our Lives?

Dr Nichols [00:51:00] That's true. So but they're supposed to give you the cheaper of the to so I mean,

Michael [00:51:07] yeah anyway, okay, so beyond some stuff we already talked about what else can we help do for you guys as Medical Professional so one specific question and then open up to your general answer when there was still a consideration on closing schools. I heard a statistic that something like 40 percent of nurses have children who are in schools and may not have alternative daycare.

Michael [00:51:30] And so having children out of school schools canceled nurses may have to stay home can't be at the hospital or otherwise treating patients. So yeah. If you've got a friend who's a nurse and they got a kid you can help out with get the nurse back to work, you know other things like that we can do as a community to help the system the Healthcare System.

Dr Nichols [00:51:49] Those are all excellent points. Yeah, I have several nurses that are in that boat. I work with it's not just nurses doctors have kids end up in school and up at home or what's even more important at the hospital. That's not just doctors and nurses. It's the person that cleans the room there.

Dr Nichols [00:52:11] Yeah. Yeah, you know, I mean, they're just as valuable as we are they have to clean the room or the guy that cleans the floors or the person who cooks the meals, they're all just as valuable as I am in this care provider change. So things we can do is reach out through Community groups. I know there's a church groups and things I where I work.

Dr Nichols [00:52:34] We have a daycare for the nurses so they bring their kids. They care they're so those are things that we can do to help each other out and offer those types of things. Then we have Elderly Care we have nurses that have parents that are living with them. And then what do you do with that person? Do you want to nurses working around this virus to come home and take care of their parents that potentially could die from this fires.

Dr Nichols [00:53:01] So then we're having people deal with those issues. So they need help with elderly cat. So these are all you bring up some very good points of I I have answers for but again it it's kind of like me raising a kid to take your tribe to raise the kid. Let's get take a tribe. It's can take a tribal mentality to get through this and help each other instead of

Michael [00:53:22] yeah. I know those are all great points about how valuable everybody is equally in making this thing run and getting through it as a community coming out the other side of this hopefully even even better and stronger than before and I want to so I want to ask you about that. But but one more Before we do so maybe it's a dumb question.

Michael [00:53:42] But we talked about takeout food. We talked about the water supply and and I was just talking to my wife and my son yesterday. Like hey, look let's let's make a point of ordering takeout a couple times a week from our you know, our favorite sushi place or the you know, local business up the street and you know try to help support them so that they get through this in and they're there at the other side of it.

Michael [00:54:05] We want to go go dine in and eat again, right, but should I You know, should I be worried that you know, somebody sneezed on my pizza or in the in the water tank? And it comes comes out the place at my house and I get it that way.

Dr Nichols [00:54:20] I'm not so worried about the water most of our water supply. I it's it's a safe water supply. You know, it's not

Michael [00:54:29] there because it's chlorinated.

Dr Nichols [00:54:30] Yeah, we got chlorinated water. It's processed. It's you know, if you're that worried there's some filters you can buy that will filter out viruses. Little bit more expensive but you can get viral grade filters to filter your water or if you really freaked out about it boil it. I mean again the water thing that I don't understand it.

Dr Nichols [00:54:52] Like I said, there's several ways to approach that then just go buying pallets of water hurricane earthquake flood. That's all different. Right because now we know the Water Supplies probably contaminated and then react to things prepared food. Sorry. Yeah as far as eating out. Again, you know, it's I guess you just have to have faith that the person that's preparing your food is not sick and if they are then potentially if they touch your food they could get you sick, you know cop on your food or whatever.

Dr Nichols [00:55:24] I mean, yeah that I guess that's in theory a possibility. I mean, so I guess, you know your own risk, but I also agree with supporting local economy. There are things that we're doing here. We are buying gift cards from your favorite restaurant and then giving those outer for yourself, you know, if you're used to buying out a meal every week by that meal and a gift card that way the restaurant owner has that money now to help offset, whatever costs they have say rent or you know, whatever then you have to pay because money isn't coming in.

Dr Nichols [00:56:01] And then now you can come in and use that gift card and three weeks six weeks a month, whatever when we can start. Be mobile again, but I think that's a good way to help people. So those are my thoughts, you know, I guess you know, anyway,

Michael [00:56:19] yeah, that's great idea and thought a gift cards. I like that one. What about so I just popped up in Facebook earlier to get in touch with you and I see an ad for the are dr. Holm air purification system. Is there do you have any idea if those kind of things are effective against virus?

Dr Nichols [00:56:37] I don't have any The any knowledge of that I hadn't bumped maybe I don't know.

Michael [00:56:44] I know good filters are good. You know you want to get

Dr Nichols [00:56:46] filters in the home. But again, yeah.

Michael [00:56:49] Yeah. I mean, I think the idea is they've got HEPA filters or whatever which I'm you know, getting emails from my Air Lines saying don't worry we have we have hospital-grade HEPA filters on our airplanes, which I hope that's not true and that you guys have better air filters in the hospitals because we all get sick on planes like The Goodyear right?

Dr Nichols [00:57:11] Well, it's interesting that I've been learning, you know, because we're dealing with this and we most hospitals United States. They change the airflow 12 times an hour. So, yeah, it's again you're asking a question assuming that you have the virus in your home. If you don't have the virus in your home then none of these are going to again it's about like you asked the question exposure versus, you know, contaminated versus whatever.

Dr Nichols [00:57:36] Yeah. The virus has to be there for you to get yeah, and so if someone in your home does have the virus then they need to wear a mask. If you're within six feet of them and caring for them. You should wear a mask anything that they touch or breathe on needs to be washed surfaces phones bedding clothes because it can live on clothes and that's why we're not hugging anymore because you can cough and sneeze and hug somebody then change your lives that way.

Dr Nichols [00:58:06] So once someone ends up in your home, that's sick. Just you have to take different precautions. So I don't know how much the ugliness high-tech would actually help but my helping other nights cleaner air in your home, but as far as viral protection, probably not.

Michael [00:58:21] Okay. Alright, well, look, I don't want to take too much for your time. But we got to hit the positive side of this. So, you know, what are some ways that we come out of this better and stronger afterwards as individuals health wise as a community as a

Dr Nichols [00:58:33] world. Let's start with health-wise. I think health-wise its kind of broaden awareness to something you and I have been working on a lot that's being healthier more active taking care of yourself being more prepared. I think maybe kind of gives us a little religion for those that are a little bit not as healthy. You know, it's kind of a wake-up call. Let me I should be healthy.

Dr Nichols [00:58:56] I think that's a very positive. I think it makes us look at you know, now the junk food anymore when you go through the movie. Oh you can shop at Smith's or Albertsons and Kroger. That now I'm gonna have to buy fruits and vegetables. So I think that's a positive. I think it's a positive. It's going to make us come together as a country where and work as a team again. We haven't done that in a while.

Dr Nichols [00:59:16] I think that's you know, it kind of like a 911 but bigger we're really realizing that what our priorities are and our priorities really should be our family and he take care of each other and I think that's a huge positive when you start no longer thinking of ourselves and thinking of our neighbors and our friends and all the stuff that you know, I've been working on throughout this training. How we met and it's a huge positive.

Dr Nichols [00:59:39] So hopefully maybe that will help change how we look at thinking I would do things in this in this world and maybe be a little bit more prepared. You know, I mean, we all wrote whether this come when this comes and goes maybe it make us reflect and say, you know, I really should have 14 days supply of food that I rotate to do over monthly. Maybe I should have a little bit of first aid training maybe I should understand that the case is a little bit better.

Dr Nichols [01:00:06] This makes us more aware of what we're doing is what we going.

Michael [01:00:09] Yeah. Absolutely. I think the Great Depression generation in this country and you know other countries have dealt with with massive impacts or Wars, you know, if you remember your parents your grandparents from that generation, they have a little bit different mentality and you know, I would hope that that in in a first world country, my son never had to see grocery shelves empty and you know concern about what you know, where the It was coming from or is it going to be there?

Michael [01:00:36] But at the same time it's a great wake-up call. I love your point about kind of coming together again as a as a as a country and you know, I think you know, we're a country and world and we're you know Humanity are we have a drive to innovate, you know, I have a drive to solve problems. And I think this is just going to expose opportunity for Innovation, whether it's in the Healthcare System, whether we do some things from a supply chain perspective what we do as a community tools for all these people working.

Michael [01:01:05] In remote now that's going to stress technology will come out with better technology and I hope we come out with a better as you said Awareness on diet and and physical health and may we wrap it up with you know, the other thing you and I have been working on a lot which is mindset and and the mental side of staying healthy through this as well. You know, we're pack animals where we are social creatures.

Michael [01:01:28] So to the extent we've got, you know kind of sequester that stuff right so and stress You know stress will bring down your immune system. So, you know, is that something you share with your patients or your coaching clients as far as the mindset to get through this

Dr Nichols [01:01:45] thing? Yeah, I do with my yelling like coaching clients. But before I did this coaching program of view, I was with my patients. I work a lot of work with you know meditation breathing exercise diet holistic approach. I'm an osteopath so for me, too.

Dr Nichols [01:02:05] I'm trained in that holistic approach of medicine, you know, you know a physical medicine and as well as the Surgical and Medical and Pharmacy and so for me, yeah, so my biggest takeaways from this is number one. Don't the butterfly effect is probably the biggest thing I'm taking away from this then, you know, the butterfly effect is when a butterfly, you know moves its wings in New York can affect the winds in China, you know, and I when you look at the world that what you personally do in your life, you know as we've been taught, you know, what you do at home and your private really reflects on who you really are the world, you know, it's what you do in private that defines who you are and so we are all responsible for what we do and it's we see the number one take care of ourselves, you know, health-wise mentally spiritually emotionally and then take care of others and so it might take away from this is take care of Of yourself take care of your family wash your hands if you're sick be responsible.

Dr Nichols [01:03:10] Don't go to work. Try not to expose them to people and just don't panic, you know, don't go out and clean the shelves, you know go out and buy what you need and then helping those who need you and then just have faith with our supply chain is the best in the world and then we're going to be fine. But that's just my take away to take care of yourself be healthy.

Dr Nichols [01:03:30] Don't forget to wash your hands.

Michael [01:03:32] That's awesome. Now, I really appreciate it, you know. One of the things to maybe wrap that up that I know you and I have heard from from Mark and the other coaches we work with is is vuca. It is a volatile uncertain complex and ambiguous world. And this is you know, this is a pandemic its massive, but we will come through this will come through it overall in better shape and it won't be the last time that we're that were challenged in our you know in our personal lives as a community as a global community, so If we things to take away from this and take the time and the opportunity to instill new practices get healthy spend time with their families.

Dr Nichols [01:04:13] Yep. Amen,

Michael [01:04:15] Amen to that. My brother will thank you for humoring my questions and fill me in where you could I appreciate the Insight. I think people have a lot of questions hoping to share this and maybe answer some of those.

Dr Nichols [01:04:25] I appreciate it. Thank you.

Michael [01:04:29] All right. Thank you again to dr. John Nichols for taking time to share that information. If you're like me the knowledge is somewhat helpful and comforting even to know what we don't know and this one was just a great reminder to get back to some very simple lifestyle things and staying healthy physically mentally and as families and communities to get through this thing and come out the other side stronger wiser and closer than ever before.

Michael [01:04:55] So as we move forward, I will reach back. Scout to dr. Nichols if we want to get him back with further questions and as the situation evolves, but until then and back to this week's regular schedule. I certainly hope that we get through this thing quickly and that you and your loved ones. Stay safe and healthy.