Kyle Maynard is a record-setting mountaineer, weight-lifter, and martial artist. He has traveled the world extensively. He’s an ambassador for multiple non-profits, a best-selling author, entrepreneur, recipient of numerous awards, and speaker to Fortune 500 companies and recently to the United Nations. Not bad…How about doing it all before the age of 35 and having been born as a congenital quad-amputee?

“There are always excuses, but those excuses are opportunities that we can use to be able do something differently.”

– Kyle Maynard

Kyle shares how his parents enabled him for life, how repeated failures became a foundation for success, and a few of his favorite mindset tricks and mantras. Beyond the accolades, Kyle takes us into a deeper discussion on the future of society and humanity and why getting uncomfortable to grow should include the comfort zones of our belief systems.

“The greatest gift that we can give ourselves or to anyone else is to fundamentally restructure the way that we see the world.

– Kyle Maynard


Kyle Maynard is an entrepreneur, speaker, best selling author, award-winning extreme athlete, and the first man to bearcrawl to the top of the highest mountain in Africa, Mount Kilimanjaro (19,340 feet), and the summit of Argentina’s Mount Aconcagua (22,838 feet), the highest peak in both the Western and Southern Hemispheres.

Born with a rare condition known as congenital amputation, that left him with arms that end at the elbows and legs that end near his knees, he learned early on to live life independently and without prosthetics. Kyle thrives on physical challenges and is a champion wrestler, CrossFit Certified Instructor and gym owner, competitive Mixed Martial Arts fighter, world record-setting weightlifter, and skilled mountaineer.

He is on a mission to make the world a better place and to inspire others to do the same by sharing his story and living by example. He travels across continents, speaking to thousands of executives and students, athletes and warriors, to share his “No Excuses” philosophy. He is a humanitarian who passionately supports numerous charities, and commits time and resources to work with wounded and recovering U.S. military veterans.

Kyle is the New York Times best selling author of his life story, “No Excuses,” and the focus of the moving ESPN documentary, “A Fighting Chance.” His story has been featured in countless television programs and editorials, which have been viewed by millions around the world.


  • Failure as a foundation
  • Next 3 feet, next 3 hours
  • Mountain of no excuses
  • Fear of future regret
  • Psychedelics or sobriety?
  • Follow bliss or shoulder responsibility?
  • Shadow side of fundamentalism
  • Interconnection of lives
  • Lessons from warrior cultures
  • Not dead, can’t quit




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Kyle: 00:00:00 The mountain of no excuses is like there's no, there's no summit, there's no end, and there are kind of always excuses, but those excuses are opportunities that we could go and use to be able to go and do something differently.

Michael: 00:00:28 Man of mastery, episode 33 with Kyle Maynard. Welcome back to the show where we are exploring actionable ways to restructure our mindset and compound common actions into remarkable results. The mission here is to learn from the success and failures of men and women applying this concept of mastery and it's lifelong journey to many different areas of life. Today I have the gift of speaking to a remarkable young man, Kyle Maynard is a record setting, Mountaineer, weightlifter and martial artist. He's traveled the world. He's an ambassador for multiple nonprofits. He's a bestselling author, entrepreneur, recipient of numerous awards, speaker to fortune 500 companies and recently to the United nations. Not bad, right? But how about doing it all before the age of 35 and having been born as a congenital quad amputee? Kyle said to me, there are always excuses, but those excuses are opportunities that we can use to be able to do something differently.

Michael: 00:01:31 Kyle's done some remarkable things physically, but this chat went way beyond his physical accomplishments. He shared how his parents really enabled him for life, how repeated failures became a foundation for success. And he shares a few of his favorite mindset tricks and mantras. But beyond that, Kyle takes us into a deeper discussion on the future of society and humanity and why getting uncomfortable should include the comfort zones of our belief systems. Three of the actionable and really cool things I took away from this conversation with, with Kyle. One is, is that concept of failure as a foundation. He talks about his youth career as a young man wrestling and how his first season he lost every single match. He, he piled up something like 35 or 36 losses in a row. And imagine, you know, you're, you're doing this with the frustration, not only losing it was a kid with basically no arms and no legs trying to figure it out.

Michael: 00:02:33 And just keeping at that. And the mindset that his dad instilled to keep him going to the point where in his second season he started to win and over the course of his wrestling career became a champion. The second thing which comes or originates from Kyle's mountain climbing expeditions is his concept of the next three feet. Just focusing on those next three feet and not only that, but how he ports that into everyday life. What am I to do in the next three hours that can make a difference, which I really like and it's, it's similar to something I try to remember each day is the question of what can I do to really move the ball today? One thing that can really be impactful or support the overall mission and three as we got into more of this sort of deeper discussion was Kyle's really his consciousness and the frequency with which we think about how our lives may touch or affect each other and we never really know, but it is something to really maybe keep in mind consider or think about. That being said, I'm really excited to share this one. So let's just jump right in with Kyle Maynard

Michael: 00:03:42 Guys today. I am really honored and super excited to have a on on my show, Kyle. So I'm just going to choose Kyle by his first name for, for just a minute because a in in a lot of ways I feel like Kyle is is, you know, your average everyday next door guy. I, I, you know, he and I were chatting offline. I almost feel like it's, it's weird that we've never met before in person, given that we've lived in a couple cities in common at the same time in the past. But in reality, you know, I don't know if this guy is, is anything even close to average unless unless you run in a set of superheroes, there may be one guy I've had in the past. It's harder to introduce, but here, here we go. So Kyle is a bestselling author, entrepreneur, a MMA and jujitsu fighter.

Michael: 00:04:30 He's an SBA award winner climb to the summit of a couple of the highest peaks in the world. High school wrestling champ, CrossFit instructor record setting, weightlifter. He's been on Oprah, real sports, CBS, good morning America sports center, CNN, Larry King live 2020 and a. He runs in a, in a set of, you know, billionaires and authors. So I am, I'm completely humbled to welcome Kyle Maynard to the show. Kyle, thanks for being here. Thanks so much for having me, Michael. I hope to live up to the hype. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you know, I, I, you know, I kind of only half joke about the superhero thing because you, you do have maybe a, a superpower or something that you have called the best thing that has ever happened to you in life as you look back upon it. And so we'll jump right in and introduce the, the physical side of your story that underlies all of these amazing accomplishments that, that are exceptional by, by any standards.

Michael: 00:05:32 But I, I wanna I wanna jump into that so people understand it. But at the same time, I've come to understand that you've got so much to offer on the, on the sort of cerebral intellectual front. I know you're, you're a very existential sort of guy and I think you and I both really appreciate reading and learning and sharing. So let's, let's just jump right into it. I'll, I'll set it up and let's see where we want go with it. So you were, you were born with a, what I believe is called a congenital as a congenital amputee. So your arms and your legs didn't develop in the womb past your, your elbow and your knee joints. Is that, is that right?

Kyle: 00:06:11 Correct. Yeah. It's

Kyle: 00:06:14 Something that there's still not really a no and no one cause for it. The probably the most accurate thing that I came across was when somebody wrote an article for me that was in men's journal or was about me and talked about amniotic banding where the amniotic womb can wrap around the end of the limb and keep it from developing. So that can happen in a, a finger or a toe. But in my case it was all four limbs kind of symmetrically affected. So I have two feet, but arms end at the elbows

Michael: 00:06:57 A little hard probably for most people to, to picture if they haven't seen you or met you in person, but it just makes some of the things that you've done out there in the world, even, even more exceptional. So let's maybe talk about some of some of your sports endeavors. You were a high school wrestling champion ultimately, and I had mentioned your name to a buddy recently. His, his son is probably 11, 12 talking in sixth grade or so, and spent his first season in wrestling in a very, very frustrating manner. I think losing a lot of matches and this is something you've got some experience with and I think it fits perfect with the theme here about resilience and using failure as a vehicle for success. So can you talk a bit about your wrestling past growing up and then maybe your MMA and jujitsu as an adult?

Kyle: 00:07:48 Sure. I started out wrestling you know, my, my dad was my hero and wanted to grow up and you know, basically he was a wrestler and so I wanted to be like him and also you know, huge fan of like whole Kogan and all of those guys jumping off the top ropes and I figured that's what I was signing up for. So when I came into the room, it was a very different experience and quickly realized that the sport was going to be difficult to figure out. Just being able to reach out and grab ahold of other people's legs was difficult. You know, and just mimicking any of the moves that other people were doing was, was a challenge. So I lost every match my first year and hated it. Did not want to come back and do it again. My dad basically tricks me into coming back out and says that like, he didn't win a match his whole first year and he said, very few people ever want to match to their first year, but everybody who signs up their second year won a match. [inaudible] And cause you know, you'll, you'll find somebody who it's their first year so you'll beat them. And

Kyle: 00:08:55 Off of that was what I,

Kyle: 00:08:58 That kind of allowed me to have the confidence to sign up my second season. And sure enough like halfway through that season I'd be a first year wrestler. Yeah. We talk about like kind of like the power of suggestion and he'd kind of planted that seed inside of me that I'd be able to beat that first year wrestler and sure enough I did and then kept winning a bunch after that. Mmm [inaudible] making it to States. By the time I was in eighth grade and I wrestled in high school was odd junior varsity until my junior year. I got a couple of varsity matches, but it's on one of the top teams in the Southeast. So it's pretty competitive line up. And finally broke through on my senior year and it had the varsity spots myself and ended up winning 36 varsity matches that year.

Kyle: 00:09:51 Got to go to the nationals and was a match away from Vienna high school, all American. So that led into jujitsu and you know, MMA and whole bunch of other adventures, but really was the kind of foundation for, for so many, for some, so many things. Was that like, just repeated failure. Yeah, that's, that's amazing. So I think we'll talk at some point here towards the end before we wrap up and where people can find you and learn more. But there had been a, a, a blog section of, of your website that looks like it's down now, but you had written a super touching and kind of amazing, a little blog post about sort of from your dad's perspective or your family's perspective when, when you were born and you know, they're, they're finding out that they had a physically very special child on, on their hands.

Kyle: 00:10:47 And I think you've, you said that as a young boy, yeah, it was, as everybody could, could imagine. Third person is something very frustrating and that you prayed every day to have arms and legs, but that your parents and your dad in particular never, never treated you that way. I think you've, you've called it self efficacy or you know, maybe it's cognitive bias that you look for what, what you are familiar with looking for. So whether you're looking to succeed or you're looking to fail, that is where your focus is drawn and, and your dad, you know, maybe in kind of that, that great spirit of white lies as a parent convinced you this was normal dude. Everybody, everybody loses every match the first year and when you come in as a second year, you're going to kill those first year kids and somehow that came true for you. Yeah, it's a, I think self efficacy on like confirmation bias by being, it's a, it's a great way to look at it. You know, he and planting that seed in me caused me to like be able

Kyle: 00:11:53 To restructure the way in which I looked at the world. And I think that that's probably the greatest gift that we can give to ourselves or to anyone else is to like fundamentally restructure the way that we see the world. I think that that's probably a lot of what you do on this podcast and for the people that are listening is Mmm. You know, being able to take a look at, at our lives and, and, and look at it, you know, somehow in it in a different way. Our brains are kind of uniquely set up to be able to targeted on like what we believe to be true. And so with like self efficacy that you know, it's just the belief in our capability to be able to do something. If we're in a wrestling match, it's my ability to be able to [inaudible] take you down or not.

Kyle: 00:12:47 Like before that actually happens and occurs, I'm going to have that like thought and that visualization inside of my head of like, is this even possible, you know, will size you up. Oh, look at you and base it upon like my past experience and you know, all the other factors that are in there. Like, you know, did I have a huge lunch before and am I, you know, dehydrated or how's my training been lately? Mmm. You know, or think our brains are amazing and the fact that they can go and scan through a million different things like that super quick and then just an act. So yeah, I think that the nature of how that operated for my family when I was growing up was it was really interesting. They for sure it could have looked at things and said like, Oh shit, like this is not gonna work. What do we do now? And in sedan they looked at it from the perspective of life, you know, well this is an ideal, you know, this isn't like we were hoping and you know, cow being born this way, but not yet. We'll figure it out. And they yeah, they, they did and kind of managed to do that, I think, and gave me that chance to be able to succeed just by, instead of doing it for me, helping me learn to be able to do it for myself.

Michael: 00:14:24 Yeah. It's so tough as a parent to figure out, you know, where you find that balance between nurture and, and kind of pushed them out of the nest or challenging any kid. And yeah, especially if there are adaptive or special needs. There's a guy I've had on my show that's become a buddy, Nathan Connelly, who talk to you. He came out and talked about being born, excuse me, with spina bifida and he was never expected

Kyle: 00:14:49 To walk

Michael: 00:14:50 And his dad got him out and was like, no, like we're going to go climb halftone. Yeah. Like there's not going to be any excuses. And, and I met him by way of a, a Spartan race. He was he was cranking up and down the mountain that a squad alien Tahoe and like, you know, winter conditions and leg braces on and, and you know, shale and scree and just kind of no limits. And he is he's become an avid Spartan racer in the last year or two after being inspired by another lady with spinal bifida, Misty Diaz. And so Nathan has said it's his goal to be the first adaptive athlete on the Spartan protein, but he's not looking to be on the Spartan adaptive protein, just Spartan protein period.

Kyle: 00:15:37 Wow. Wow.

Michael: 00:15:39 So I love that kind of mindset. That's really cool. That's powerful. You know, in terms of this show and mindset and resilience and, and using hard things to grow. It seems like that is something that people are really thirsting for and need. But as a society we've gone the other way, you know, life's gotten easier. Things we've gotten, we've all gotten softer. You and I both live in San Diego, you know, it gets down below 70 degrees and we're putting on down coats. Right? So the things that you've done physically, things like fighting, like like climbing mountains. To me what's super interesting about that, beyond the physical accomplishment is, is, is just the mindset that it takes the focus. You've talked about looking three feet ahead as you bear crawl up a mountain. And I, I think I, I love how you bring that back to everyday life.

Michael: 00:16:31 Like I've heard you say, okay, I'm going to look at my day and I just, I just need to look three hours ahead and figure out how I, how I conquer the next three hours of my day. So let me just ask in terms of, I'll maybe kind of throw you a multipart question there. What are kind of the dangers or challenges that we're facing as, as growing, you know, men and I think you're an uncle. I'm a father and getting, you know, a little soft or the way we allow kids to be soft these days, you know, do, do we need more adventure and rites of passage and things like that? Yeah. How does, how does that set up for you and some of the things you've done like with, with MMA and jets in particular?

Kyle: 00:17:10 Yeah, I,

Michael: 00:17:11 I mean I think it's a,

Kyle: 00:17:14 It's, it's for sure a, like a big, it'd be question, right? Like with technology advancing at the rate at which it is like what, what is that future going to go and look like without, you know, the, the, the challenges are even when we get there to that point, if we don't face kind of how we are right now and I'd be lying too if I said that like, you know, I've by any means like got that figured out for myself. Like there's definitely times where like you said, you know, I'll, I'll just look at this as, you know, what, what do the next three hours look like? You know, what do I need to go and get through and knock out right now to be able to go and make it to that next three hours and kind of approach things from, from that perspective.

Kyle: 00:18:03 But you know, it's our, our society I think is definitely fracturing and into two camps when the strange thing is like, you know, seems like the polarities increasing in the, the vocalization of that polarity is increasing yet a tiny conversations I have with people seem to be the opposite. Yeah. I think people agree upon like way more than they, then they don't. And you know, seems to be that like there's sort of a middle group that [inaudible] doesn't really you know, care necessarily what like, you know, you're doing behind closed doors with like your sexuality or personal choices if you want to use marijuana recreationally or whatever you want to do there. But at the same time they understand that like the sort of welfare and nanny state can be really constricting and debilitating if there's no way out of it. I've, I have friends who you know, just because they got a job and took a little bit of extra income, they lost their healthcare and that's not okay.

Kyle: 00:19:26 And you know, like if we're going to decentivize people from, you know, doing better than that, that to me doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And I think it's definitely counterintuitive to the idea of like, that you're, you're talking about with mastery, and I love what you said too, I think it was on your, your website where, Mmm. You know, with mastery, like is it journey of a lifetime with no final destination, you know, but rewarding every day. It's a, I love that. Like I, I've always said too, like the mountain of no excuses is like there's no, there's no summit, there's no end and there are kind of always excuses, but those excuses are opportunities that we could go and use to be able to go and do something differently if we take an honest look at our lives and ourselves and see maybe even in this next three feet, this next three hours, like what could I do differently?

Michael: 00:20:27 Yeah. I've, I've heard you mentioned that sort of the myth of the summit before and completely with you on that, it seems like your adventures, whether it's, you know, whether it's outdoors, mountaineering, a sport, your next endeavor, I mean, you're, you're involved as an ambassador for so many different foundations that you, you know, my

Kyle: 00:20:48 Impression from afar is that you get very energized and you tackle sort of that nest, you know, that next summit metaphorically, if you will. And then, I mean, it almost sounds like in between those summits you, you kicked back and not only recover, but maybe try to refined your motivation, or at least I'll put it in my own terms is I feel like I have to keep having those big scary goals somewhere out on my calendar to focus and keep myself motivated or I'm at, you know, in danger of drifting. And maybe that's where a lot of people are, you know, they're, they're daunted by how to take that first step and you know, not everybody can be Kyle and not everybody can be, you know, whomever. But that's the wrong comparison is, you know, we're all individuals and you got to start where you are and you know, everybody else has got to meet each other where they are and take whatever that first step is, could just be deciding to act.

Kyle: 00:21:45 It could be getting off the couch, it could be running 30 miles, you know, everybody's at a different place. It's just taking those kind of small actions and building, building them up consistently as has amazing results if we allow it to. Yeah, I've just, I love the idea of like the, that kind of compound interest effect of things over time. And you know, I think yeah, to your point of that, in between periods of like, in between a summit or in between, you know, some big project or goal, you know, have that kind of period of downtime. I think that that allowed like a, a deeper level of introspection that you know, I wouldn't have maybe gotten in like a traditional learning environment, which I'm super grateful for now. And I think then the question then becomes like, [inaudible] you know, continually like, what to do with that, like even seeing, you know, cooking on on your website, right?

Kyle: 00:22:51 Like it's [inaudible] is, is and I think it was Sean Sean butcher that you had on. Yeah. Shall we say? Yep. That'd be Shea at the, you know, like, I just like how many different areas can we go and apply that like level of like mastery mindset to [inaudible]. I mean it's, it's almost not infinite, but there's, there's definitely a lot, you know, there's only so much time that we have in the day to be able to go in and figure out what it is that we're, that we're doing. I think for me lately, like that like deeper level of like mastery is been like in this sort of like existential philosophical sort of you know, debate and thinking through existence and like thinking through like what does like a, a good, you know, well our range kind of outcome humanity look like down the road in the future.

Kyle: 00:23:48 Okay. I'd be lying if I said to you that that is, doesn't take away a lot, you know, from like enjoying the present moment for what it's worth and probably like that, you know, area of mastery that I can go and bring in my life most now is like just gratitude for the present and you know, just, you know, hang out and, you know, kind of smile and enjoy more as opposed to like thinking through like all the different scenarios that like, we know, how do we [inaudible] how do we fix the situations that we're in? Yeah, no, I can completely relate. It's amazing how hard it is just to get it out of our own heads and, and be happy and, and enjoy the present without, you know, all the other stuff swirling around sometimes. Well, since you are really interested in sort of the existential right now, I'll take a couple of quick tangents.

Kyle: 00:24:38 So, so let's talk about serendipity. I was getting ready to for this interview this week, right? And, and just a day or two ago. So I'll tie it back to Joel Runyon. When I was talking to your buddy, Joel of impossible HQ, we were just talking about simplifying in life and not just sort of the digital detox and digital minimalism sort of concept, but just, you know, he, I think he put it in really good terms. It's like if you're hoarding resources, it could be useful to somebody else, then you're doing a disservice. I go, you know what I got? I love books. I love to learn. I love to read physical books. So I've got so many books stacked up around my home office and my house here, and I go, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to call some of this. I'm going to stack up some books that I know I'm not going to read again, or maybe I'm not going to ever get to read and I'm going to donate them.

Kyle: 00:25:24 Wow. Get them to somebody else who could use them. And I got a stack here that are going to Goodwill and I've got a stack as I'm looking to my right of like, I'm not sure if I'm gonna read these or not. And then I listened to a past interview you did where you talked about what your favorite book is or at least your favorite at the time. And it's sitting here in this stack of six maybes and it suddenly come back into, well, if Kyle Kyle said one of his favorite empire of the summer moon. Wow. Okay, cool. Awesome. I, I had a few that popped into my head as to what would have been my Harris, at least on that day was your favorite. And so yeah, somewhat serendipitously that thing, you know, if if I hadn't heard your, your past podcasts a day or two ago, that might've already gone off to Goodwill, but now it's on the [inaudible]. Wow. No, yeah. Strong, strong recommendation for, for that book. For sure. My favorite story in history and you know, just the diversity, like I think like, yeah. For your listeners to kind of gain some context as to what that's about. Like it's a [inaudible] basically the [inaudible] Texas Rangers, the end, the Comanche Indian tribes on on the Plains, the high Plains of Texas, like in that around 1830

Kyle: 00:26:43 To 1890

Kyle: 00:26:44 Period where the bulk of the fighting occurred after the civil war. And you know, talk about like just wild abandoned and overcoming adversity to command you tribe or the, they were the like the, the fiercest of the fears and toughest of the tough, they would, you know, I mean this is maybe a little little graphic, but they, they'd go in like ride like 200 miles, like 300 miles. Like ride a horse to death, have a second horse, they jump on, they'd drink the dead horses, stomach, you know, contents for hydration and continue on. Like they were just like absolutely wild in terms of their ability to be able to go to limits that the others couldn't. And that's, and the Texas Rangers were kind of like the, the, you know, closest Western equivalent to that. Right. In terms of just like their hardiness and their ability to be able to like [inaudible] hold their ground and Mmm. I think, you know, both sides clashing together there at that point was really like, what am I [inaudible] favorite periods in history? Although it was definitely like a gruesome, when at times I think it just showed like how deeply both, you know valued and believed in, in their way of life and were willing to fight for it.

Michael: 00:28:03 Yeah. There's, there's so much that come out of those sort of warrior cultures and, and the toughness is as brutal as it is that, that go along with it. It sounds like you've been on a pretty introspective journey lately or between some of the big adventures and you've talked about things like authenticity in the past and being willing to just, you know, open, open, tough talking points. So, you know, you just ran through two or three quick sort of big societal third rail type of things. But so let me just hit one psychedelics. I think you've, you've talked about some of the things that are out there as you know, maybe in the past taboo, but are potentially like real helpful things these days. You and I have a common interest in things like vets with PTs and I think there's been some, some real strong research about some things that can help help that and other problems.

Kyle: 00:28:59 I think I'm, yeah, I think the, the psychedelics have for sure like open my mind in ways in which like I couldn't have probably done that on my own. Like, and just in my own personal experience and, and I've seen them help, you know, so many other people too. You know, and the flip side, I also see like a, our strong argument for sobriety, you know, I see. You know, I also enjoy wine as well. Like I think it kinda depends on like the person and like where, where you're at and like what your

Michael: 00:29:38 You know, what you feel.

Kyle: 00:29:41 Yeah. You want to take on? I think the psychedelics in particular, like it can occasionally be like a bit of a [inaudible] Pandora's box, right? Like if you are battling those, you know, inner demons, then you want to be in a place where with like the right set and setting and the right people that like, that you're surrounded by, that you're able to work through that. Otherwise, you know, I've, I've had friends that have had really traumatic experiences from it, so not to deter people away from it, but I think it's just, it's something that you know, go in with like [inaudible] some degree of [inaudible] of caution, but also with like you know hope that like real positive change could go and come out of it. Like I think, but for sure, I believe that the decriminalization of these things is an enormous step in the right direction.

Kyle: 00:30:36 And you know, the continued to kind of therapeutic use of it too, I think is really powerful. You know, the studies that are coming out now with in DMA and and veterans I think is really [inaudible] really promising. Be able to go in and help treat things and that, you know, as a, as a pharmaceutical, as opposed to like something that came from the earth and also has, you know, good efficacy. So I think at one point in my life I was probably just like all in 100% on the psychedelics and now I would say like, you know, just to encourage people to, you know, feel it for themselves and like feel what's right for you.

Michael: 00:31:20 Yeah. That, that seems like a fair, well rounded look at it. And maybe just being open minded that even if it's not something that that fits into your needs or your life, that it may benefit others.

Kyle: 00:31:31 Exactly. Yeah. And just to take away the stigma with all those kinds of things, right? Like there's so much stigma that we've had attached to all kinds of things. I'm even like [inaudible] you know, sexuality like talking about that, right? Like it's you know, really there's the, that's kind of the, I think the shadow of like the, the Protestant ethic, right. Or however you want to go and put it, I mean, any like fundamentalist view of [inaudible] Mmm. You know, if anything I guess is really like what my, my desires to go to encourage people to be able to like open themselves up to, you know, a range of things that are, you know, outside of their comfort zone, right. And open ourselves up to different perspectives and beliefs that like we would have otherwise. You know, shied away from her or questioned. I think that to me it was like, like

Kyle: 00:32:41 Traveling around the world and seeing how like other cultures and other things like did things differently than how I did them growing up. It really like opened my eyes to the fact that like, wow, this is the world's a lot. It's a small place, but it's a lot bigger place to then than I ever realized in terms of like, [inaudible], you know, right and wrong, good or bad, you know, sort of the ethical conversation.

Michael: 00:33:05 I spent a, so I've, I've had a chance here's a little bit older adult to do a good bit of vacation travel internationally, but as a, yeah, kind of a late twenties. Udell I was inspired by a buddy of mine. You ended up being the best man in my wedding guy from New Zealand and growing up in New Zealand, he told me, he goes, you know, Hey look at that time at least he's like, you know, we're two main islands in the middle of nowhere. We're like three or 4 million people total Kiwis and, and like at least a million live abroad. So we're keenly aware there were really isolated and that that is dangerous in terms of an isolated worldview. And so they had a, as a, as a culture, they had a view that your education wasn't just what you learned in school, that kids had to get, you know, kind of get pushed out of the nest a little bit and go see some of the world, you know, whether that was, you know, backpack Europe or go travel around Asia or just, you know, kind of get out there and you, as you said, you see so many different things.

Michael: 00:34:06 And every trip I think I've taken, I come home with an appreciation for some new things that maybe I never experienced before and that I, I want to make part of my life because I, I liked and enjoyed and at the same time come back with the appreciation of, of things I had at home that maybe I undervalued or took for granted in the past.

Kyle: 00:34:25 Totally. What's a, what's something that like you, like a recent memory that maybe opened your mind up?

Michael: 00:34:33 Well, you know, so that first big trip I took to, he inspire me. I grabbed the backpack and went international for six or seven months. And it's really tough to say, you know, what's a, what's a favorite place? There's so many incredible places and I think a lot of it is a product of, of who you meet and kind of the people along the way and the journey. So I would say, you know, back back in those days the mountains of, of Nepal and Nepal in general, it was one of my favorite places. But one of, one of my more recent trips with my family these days, and this kind of goes back to the, the people is a, we took, my wife and I took our son to Europe a couple of years ago and, and we met a, an Australian family that was traveling with a couple of kids, a boy about same age as my son.

Michael: 00:35:25 And they were off on a full year long adventure. Took their kids out of school, they were homeless, they went all over the world, you know, using that as like a real world education for their kids. And so we hung out for the two, three weeks of the Europe tour. But to the point of like, you know, it's kinda who you meet along the way became friends. They came and visited us on their U S leg of their journey. We've gone over to see them in Australia and see their home now and then they came back and spent Christmas in Mexico with us last year. So you know, lasting bonds that you never expected but you found along the road.

Kyle: 00:35:59 Yup, for sure. I that I definitely can relate and not, I'm super grateful for that. I think the, it's kind of, I was just wild, like the totality of the amount of travel I've gotten to go and do over the last few years. I think sometimes I go to Harvard guilt that like I haven't gotten to go out and stay in touch with everybody, so you know, as much as I would want it to. But you know, it's, it's like when you come across somebody that you haven't seen in a really long time, I think it's just like, it's, especially when you can go and catch back up, like it's, no time has passed on. I think that's a really special thing.

Michael: 00:36:31 Yeah, it sure is. It's really powerful. And those kinds of friends where that can happen. It's really nice. You know, a, so another guy, I'll segue to some folks I met through some recent travels. There's a guy named Laval Saint Germain who has done some amazing things. He's a, he's quite a Mountaineer himself. He's done the seven summits and, and more, I think he's done the highest peak in a number of countries. And recently he solo rode the Atlantic ocean from continent to continent. And I think it was 52 days he did that, I'm not going to say on a whim, but he was inspired by a friend who had a sudden cancer diagnosis. And he did. The row is sort of, you know, maybe in solidarity, maybe as a bit of a metaphor of, you know, suddenly, you know, you're afloat on a very scary and risky and unknown journey and ultimately you're all by yourself. So despite all those things he's done. And, and by the way, he's, he's an airline pilot, right? So, you know, by by day flies, planes around Canada and, and adventures the, the world. And we talked about imposter syndrome, so he said like, despite all that, when he gets in a room to do public speaking, he looks around, he goes like, you know what, what am I doing with Joe de Sena and, and Patrick Sweeney and Kyle Maynard, like, I don't belong here. Do you, do you ever feel that way?

Kyle: 00:37:56 Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I think you know, even I think even in preparation for this conversation too and thinking about like, wow, there's, there's a lot of, you know, areas to be desired in terms of like how I can approach my life with, you know, a greater degree of mastery and, and like the imposter syndrome there that occurs with like you know, just even, even having that conversation or if you're thinking that through, right? Like, it's I think it's a, it's absolutely something that, that most people face. If they don't face it, there's probably also two questions that they aren't asking themselves that maybe they would benefit from is my, my view. I think that it's like, like anything, it's a double edged sword, right? Like it's, it can be something that can sink the ship if, you know, the imposter syndrome runs the show, but if [inaudible] if we, you know, the lack of imposter syndrome can basically turn to just like a [inaudible] self aggrandizing narcissism.

Kyle: 00:39:01 Right? So I think there is kind of a, a healthy balance there. Like maybe there's, you know, I guess the healthy expression of but that would be humility. I like that, you know, so I think but yeah, I totally can. I mean put myself in the shoes of your friend there 52 days, you know, crossing an ocean and how, yeah. Terrifying. That must be in moments and also like really peaceful and beautiful and serene and, and you know, tranquil in moments too. Like I'm sure it was probably probably a bit of both, but I'm sure it was the full, the full spectrum. I mean, you mentioned fear a bit. What are what are some of your fears or what do you think holds you back? Probably more than anything. This might sound a little crazy, but it's, I think fear of, you know, looking out in the future or being down the road and, and looking back and wishing that I would've done something different.

Kyle: 00:40:08 So I think it's like the fear of like future regret. Hmm. Interesting. You know, just thinking about how, you know, interconnected everything is right. The time that we take to have this conversation and then like, hello, who all is listening to this and the different routes that that could go. You know, if you imagine kind of the universe as just like a series of a ton of different strains, you know, possibilities of roads that we could go and take, then Mmm. Yeah. I think just getting to the point where [inaudible] I would be far enough down one of those paths and then look back and say like, yeah, I wish I would've done X. I wish I would've done why I wish I would have Z. Just like that fear of regret. But then in this present moment now, like that's all that I have. That's all that you have. It's all that we have right in time. We'll just keep moving on regardless. And it's kind of been different too to those feelings. So it's a matter of like having to go and take the lessons and experiences and all those things that I've learned [inaudible] apply them to my life right now and, and be a little bit better, you know, 0.0001% better than I was three hours ago. Yeah, right. Yeah. Again, it goes, I guess it

Michael: 00:41:33 Goes back to those compounding results. Something you said in a past interview that really stuck with me is, I think you mentioned something along the lines of, you know, you're, you're, part of what you do is you're a public speaker, you're a motivational speaker and the oftentimes people speak not necessarily about what the audience needs, but what they as a speaker personally need and that, you know, that becomes a theme, but you know, done right. Hopefully what you're, you're going to do is, is you're going to touch a few other people and maybe they can touch a few other people and you never quite know when or where or you're, you're going to be able to impact somebody else.

Kyle: 00:42:07 For sure. Yeah. And you know, I think it's a, it's an interesting thing. I think we're all kind of are on our own journeys, you know, meant to kind of have, you know, our own different unique discoveries. And I said big, big question of like the future path that that I take. It's like the debate that I have with myself. It's like, do I take the path that I believe to be the best for myself and you know, kind of screw everybody else, right? Like just best for Kyle or do I take the path that's, you know, gonna go and do. Yeah. The greatest amount of good. And I think the, the answer to that is it's pretty obvious. Mmm. However, when we think about it though, maybe it's not, you know, maybe sometimes taking the path that like is best for us.

Kyle: 00:43:03 We'll ultimately go and do the greatest amount of good. I think Alan Watts said, you know, it's Mmm. It's the fact that everyone is trying to like save the world that causes it to like need to be saved. Hm. Yeah. So if everyone were to just stop, stop trying to save the world, then like the world would just be okay and it would, it would figure itself out. I don't know that to be true, right? Like this is again, kind of like those different like reality is they go and open up of like, you know, do you Zig when you should zag or, or zag when he should have Zig?

Michael: 00:43:43 Yeah, no, I, there's so many things we do that have unintended consequences. Certainly a lot of times from a policy perspective on a, on a grander scale. If I, if I steal a couple of other quotes that you have quoted from, from authors in the past, you know, follow your bliss, certainly seems to speak to maybe taking care of ourselves first and capitalizing on what we can, what we can bring to ourselves in the world and the, and the people around us. And maybe, you know, in the, in the spirit of growth, through adversity and, and doing hard things. I think you've quoted another that's along the lines of we either choose the things we suffer or will be chosen for us.

Kyle: 00:44:26 You're right, right. Or maybe a bit of both. Right. Like it's the follow your bliss is interesting. I heard, I'm sure you're probably pretty familiar with Dr. Jordan Peterson. I remember, I'm hearing him rip that to shreds one time, which is weird because Joseph Campbell who came up with the sort of hero's journey concept is really closely related to a lot of what doctor [inaudible], Dr. Peterson talks about [inaudible]. I'm a huge fan of Dr. Peterson. I went and sat outside of when he presented here in San Diego and like waited an hour and a half and my sister and Nicole just to be able to shake his hand and tell him thank you, had a huge impact on me, but also the you know, to hear him kind of rip apart like the follow your bliss message was, it was interesting, you know, his, his whole thing is like, you need to shoulder responsibility and bliss is kind of like the denial of that responsibility, right? Like if we just choose the kind of the blissful path, then we're, we're missing out on like the thing in which we're supposed to like do to perform and to work. But yet, then again, maybe like choosing that blissful path is the thing that we're supposed to do and inspiring other enough other people to go and do that would eventually result in, you know a good conceivable outcome. Well, not just for ourselves, but for others as well.

Michael: 00:45:58 Yeah. Or maybe if I throw throw another angle yet on the pie hell is, is maybe it is our perception or definition of bliss. You know, if bliss means taking the easy way out and avoiding conflict and avoiding hard things and kind of idling along through life, then maybe I tend to agree with, with Dr. Peterson. But if we, if we change that mindset to, you know, I'm going to you know, embrace her things, I, I'm going to do things that are challenging. I'm going to do things that may be hard now, but I think they've got, they've got payback down the road. Oh yeah. You know, I can't go for instant gratification. You know, can't always say yes to my son, have an ice cream, right? Because the longterm effects are bad. To pick a simple example. So if we think about bliss as, I dunno, maybe finding, finding fulfillment and doing things that are tough and challenging and the ways that that helps us grow, then, you know, maybe maybe it can be follow your bliss.

Kyle: 00:46:54 Yeah, I guess it's true. It does entirely depend upon like what year, like perception and perspective of that bliss would actually be.

Michael: 00:47:02 How are you doing on time? Are you going, do you have a hard cutoff? No, I'm good. I have a DMV afternoon. I think it's my plan after this so they never cross state on. That would be great. I'm not sure I embraced doing hard things when it comes to [inaudible]. Yeah. So I'll get DMV experience. I'll try not to take too much more of your time, but I, I think just you know, talking about some hard things and, and I want to hit a couple of other points that there, there'll be a lot of people who can't imagine climbing a 19,000 foot mountain. But there are a lot of people who, one of the examples you've used is, you know, using a touch screen on a smartphone. A lot of people know how to do that and they can't imagine how you do it and you're just like, well, I just do. I learned how, but I can't remember who this was. This was quite awhile ago and I want to say it was, it was a buddy of yours that I saw or maybe you told the story that this, this buddy of yours being absolutely terrified at a, at riding in a vehicle that you were driving.

Kyle: 00:48:10 Right, right. While using a cell phone at the same time.

Michael: 00:48:16 And that's probably a shoulder shrug for you too. Yeah. Like everybody else does it. Why can't I do it?

Kyle: 00:48:21 Yup. No, that that definitely, so it was a friend of mine that had submitted Mmm. Everest, right. So he's been in like some of the scariest environments on, on earth, if not the scariest environment on earth. And yeah, he told me that one of the scariest moments of his life was when he was driving up in there for the first time. And I answered my cell phone. I was driving like if he told me like years later down the road, it's kind of funny how he just completely played it. Cool. That middle it, that was absolutely terrified. So

Michael: 00:48:50 That's, that's hilarious. What else I want to ask you, these are, these are pretty random and unconnected, but you mentioned and you might've done this for one of your charity endeavors, but you mentioned doing the walk across Greece. Did you do that with Mark divine, the courage foundation or on your own?

Kyle: 00:49:06 No, it was with a few other seal buddies. But we, we were able to raise some funds for the Navy seal foundation and for the Glen Doherty foundation and just, you know, being there in Greece and getting to kind of go and experience that and like retrace the steps of Spartans was, was absolutely wild. The Greek countryside too. It's just

Kyle: 00:49:29 Breathtakingly beautiful. And to think about that too, like kind of coming back to our earlier conversation of like, you know, the different routes and paths that we take. Right. Like had they not done that, you know, and, and yeah. Stood up to the tyrants you know, who are, you know, beating down the Gates, then certainly it would have been a different world conceivably, I guess. You know, in a way like Xerxes, like probably could have just rolled over through the rest of Europe at that point. So, you know, it's kind of wild to think like, what would the, the world looked like today had that occurred?

Michael: 00:50:09 Yeah, absolutely. You never know. And, and they [inaudible] probably didn't even have that thought, right. It was just like, this is what we believe is the right thing to do and this is what we stand for. Yup.

Kyle: 00:50:20 It's almost better I think to potentially probably not have that thought. Right. And just to be able to, to act. I think when you know, sometimes for me, I think I do get like in into that like overthinking existence kind of aspect of things, which [inaudible] Mmm. Can be a bit paralyzing without like a true North. But like, I think that like diving deeper into examining those things, I think is really, I think it's important. I envy people

Michael: 00:50:50 Who

Kyle: 00:50:52 Maybe don't do, you know, don't do that, right. Who have sort of that very clear, like, yeah, this is the way and the only way. But but then again I don't do so it's kind of kind of kind of both sides. Right. Then again, I try to encourage people to be more open minded about things. So yeah, I appreciate you kind of indulging the, you know, overthinking existence conversation with me.

Michael: 00:51:20 Yeah, for sure. It's, it's a shame to me too. I have a little bit of a, you know, danger tendency towards analysis paralysis and too much thinking and not enough action. So, you know, you go back to speakers speaking about what they need to talk about this, you know, this mastery journey and challenge and learning and application. It starts, starts with me far from mastered it and certainly what I need and, and, and have a sense that others could benefit and I hope that serves. But

Kyle: 00:51:48 What did, what is, if you don't mind me asking you this then, like what, what is the thing that when you are at a crossroads in your life that you use to judge whether you Zig or zag?

Michael: 00:52:01 Yeah, it's, I mean, it's a good, it's a good question. I think what has really been foremost in my mind as I've made those kinds of decisions, particularly over the last year or two, which is when I've really and packaged together, you know, what you people are hearing now and I've started to write about and things like that. So one of the things for me, and I don't know if you have trouble with this as well as is, I think that there's value in time and silence, but I have a tendency for my mind to run wild. So a challenge for me is, has been to through tools, things like meditation, breathing to get the mind to quiet down and do a little more, you know, less than conscious thinking and start to get some clarity on things. And some of the things that maybe a lot of us think about piecemeal or in, in fleeting moments. I've tried to sit and spend some time really articulating and putting on paper for myself those last year, year or two in particular, you know, what are the things that, that drive me and what are the principles, you know, you mentioned true North, I don't know that it's true North as a direction, but what are some of the things that are really fundamental values for me that I want to try to uphold and whatever I'm doing?

Kyle: 00:53:14 Yeah.

Michael: 00:53:15 Application, big or small Zig or zag type of decisions. And it's amazing how, you know, if you want to call that a personal ethos or whatever it might be, when you take the time to get some of those fundamentals that have probably been rattling around in your head for awhile. Yeah. Kind of get them down on paper and you can refer back to it was a bit of a compass. They really seem to, to really inform almost everything. Wow.

Kyle: 00:53:41 Do you

Michael: 00:53:43 Do you have a suggestion on like, like that best way to elicit those values? Just sit in silence for a while and kind of like feel that through. I'll give all the credit to to our mutual friend Mark divine on that one. I said, the way I found Mark was I had a basically like a breathing panic attack on an airplane fi four years ago. Why I I've, I've flown and traveled for work, not, you know, as a consultant all over the country. North America have traveled all over the world for fun and never had an issue flying but doing it since I was a kid. And then one day they closed the door, you know, getting ready to take off. And I had this, yeah, this attack. And I was like, I was that guy where I had to stand up and be like, Hey, open the door.

Michael: 00:54:28 I'm getting off. And I had no idea why. I had no idea what to do about it. And I don't know what I Googled. But somehow I came across Mark and his organization, a lot of things they teach around breathing. And as I got further into it he's, he's just got some really incredible tools that help coach people through that, that sort of personal ethos process of articulating what he calls the three PS, the passions, the principles, and then ultimately at least at point in time or, or in some encompassing way, you know, trying to articulate what you think you're unique purposes to the world. So yeah, you might check back in with him or I, I I've mentioned some people that I'm, I'm going through becoming a certified coach and in that process and, and his operating system now as well. So be happy to help you if I can or point you in the right direction.

Kyle: 00:55:24 Yeah, that's really cool. I mean, even just that insight I appreciate greatly and thank you for sharing that story too. I

Michael: 00:55:31 Yeah,

Kyle: 00:55:32 Like I said, I think I'm earlier, I loved when

Michael: 00:55:38 Yeah, I've read on your website where you said like,

Kyle: 00:55:40 Mastery is the journey of a lifetime with no final destination. But rewarding every day like that, that really resonated with me and I, I consensus now even to a greater degree, I think, like why, why that was the case, you know? And I think having been through what you've been through and you know, to come out the other side of it and to have the life that you have now, that's pretty cool.

Michael: 00:56:04 That's pretty remarkable. I really appreciate that. And, and I appreciate you saying that [inaudible] from a guy who accomplished and overcome so much as you have that, that means a lot. Kyle. Thank you. Yeah, for sure. It really, thank you. You know, I don't want to take too much of your day here. I know you've got some exciting stuff to do this afternoon, but you know, maybe in the spirit of that last that last thought from you and I, you know, I mentioned Nepal was was one of my favorite, favorite journeys when I was, I was doing the Annapurna circuit, like a two week track. It's, it's kinda like for hikers it's its path, but for locals it's their road, you know, they're moving stuff between villages and every person you pass says Nama stay. And I've, I've heard you mentioned, you know what, what that means is, you know, the light inside of me sees the light recognizes the light inside of you. So, you know, I, I really appreciate you taking some time to, to read some of what I've written and spend time with me today and the audience and and, and listen and share. And in that spirit of, I'll try to see the light in each other where, you know, where we resonate with each other or maybe even more importantly, where we don't see eye to eye and we can still appreciate our commonalities.

Kyle: 00:57:21 Absolutely. Man. Thank you for, for saying that and for recognizing that. I think that that's probably, you know, perhaps at the end of the day, like the, the greatest thing is like, even if we don't see IDI with someone to be able to like to recognize that that light inside of them, you know, universally I think is really [inaudible]. Yeah. I'm a firm believer that like the, you know, somehow in some way like the life force that's running inside of me and running inside of you is also running inside of, okay, you know, my sister's puppy that I'm sitting next to you right now. And like you know, just the, the little just little shifts that we can go and do to, to help that. Like, I mean it's also like, that's like perhaps like a super simplistic explanation of it, right? Like I don't think any of us have any idea, like, you know, the reality in life that we're in, like what that actually is. But yeah, I think it does, it starts with each of us just taking the time to be able to, you know, appreciate that light in somebody else's eyes. And at least if we're, we don't see eye to eye, right, we can be slightly less pissed off than we were before and I will take that to the bank or do the DMV any day.

Michael: 00:58:42 Right. Well, yeah, really, really well said. Well, so for people, Kyle, the that want to maybe stay tuned in to what your next big adventure literally or figuratively might be learn more about you. I think you have a, you have a bestselling book where you talk more about the wrestling past and some other challenges. I know you've got a website, I'll put a link to Kyle Maynard, What else is upcoming or you want to let people know about including your, I know you've got and involvement in some apparel and supplements companies as well.

Kyle: 00:59:15 Can I, do you have some buddies that are leading the charge with that? Because some things, the works currently that have yet to like announce her on bail yet. But I think if people are, or on my site or YouTube or Instagram getting can, you know, follow and, and see what happens next, but I'm excited for, I think it's going to be like, I, I'm a firm believer that like the [inaudible] okay. You know, just the new chapters that go and open up in our lives, you know, allow us to be able to go deeper to a different place than we've ever been before. And that like, I think the universe itself is somehow sort of like, you know, ripples the layers and expressions of love. And even if were we, you have to fight through tough times or dark times.

Kyle: 01:00:12 You had to go and get to the that point then, you know, there is like always that light at the end of the tunnel. I think that your, your story is, is like definitely evidence of that too. And you know, inspires me. I think that probably more than anything else, like having a family down the road is, you know, something that excites me. Just like, you know, what a C see life through through my kids' eyes someday. As well as, you know, I mean, now I get to do that through my nieces and nephew over Christmas, so that'd be fine. But Mmm.

Kyle: 01:00:51 Yeah, I think grateful for you, grateful for this conversation. Just kind of helping me, you know, be able to hit that alignment for the rest of my day. And you know, I'm, I'm a big believer that we never really know kind of what that, that next thing around the corner to that that will open us up to, you know, a whole new world would be. And I, it didn't know where this conversation would go, but I'm really grateful for how it's unfolded and definitely we should go talk Joe and Joel into doing some kind of adventure down the road and except you think he's probably significantly more extreme than either of us is no doubt not seeing him that, but he's one of the craziest masters that I've ever, ever come across in my life and CNN, like running across Antarctica is like absolutely insane.

Michael: 01:01:54 Yeah, he, he sets the bar high. But I, I just love the whole concept that, you know, it's only impossible until you've done it. You know, your gratitude means a lot. And I super appreciate your time Kyle and your, your willingness to share and you know, being kind of a deep thinker and being willing to talk about some stuff, it's probably not on your normal talking points. Just you know, your humility and again, so, so grateful for you coming by to talk one thing I, and again I'll make sure to get links up to where people can Contin in and find out what may be going on next. Certainly family is one of the biggest, greatest adventures of all when you, when you head down that path. But I have all the things I wrote down. I want to make sure I mentioned one more that that may be people can think take away.

Michael: 01:02:40 One thing I often talk to my son about is having a a mantra you can come back to and when things get tough, you know, or I've said said a little bit differently to him. I said that you can't, your brain can't hold pain and music in the same thought. And so, wow. You know, when you're, you know, you're pushing during that Spartan race or during a soccer game, you know, and, and things are painful physically or challenging emotionally and mentally, you know, maybe you come back to, to a song or maybe it'll, you know, a little simple repetitive mantra can, can do the same thing. And you've quoted a buddy of yours that I think was, was taken by a brain tumor and, and use it yourself. I think some of your mountain climbs, I'm not dead. Can't quit

Kyle: 01:03:25 That one. Yeah, it's amazing. I think it's something that continually kind of realized like the, you know, the deeper truth in that like, we only is, has so much time in like, you know, that as long as we have that air inside of her lungs and blood inside of her heart to continue pumping, then we can continue to go in, find a way to [inaudible], you know, to, to move forward. There was one that I was going to share when you said mantra that that just came up and I forget the Sanskrit way to say this, but it's one that is really then been stuck with me recently. It's all may all beings be happy, healthy and free. Nice. I think that that one is you know, I think it really like touches to the point where he said like, he can't, you said that you can't have music and, and pain pain at the same time. Yeah.

Michael: 01:04:31 Yeah. I liked that one. That's an amazing way to wrap up. Thanks for sharing that one as well, Kyla and your time. I hope we keep in touch and can hear more about your, your bench adventures to come. I will I've thrown some ideas at Joel and I'll throw them your way as well maybe and we can all hook up and do something.

Kyle: 01:04:49 Okay. Sounds good. And then don't threaten me with a good time. All right. Thanks so much. All right.

Michael: 01:04:57 All right. Thank you so much for your time today and joining me on that one and thank you again to Kyle. He's an incredible young man and a lot of fun to talk to the links to where you can find Kyle and follow him and his next adventure. I'll put all that up with the show notes for this episode on the website man of 33 so this is episode 33 man of 33 again, I really appreciate your time and appreciate the continued support. Thank you so much. One of the things you can really, really do to help if you like the show, if you enjoyed Kyle, if you like the content you like where this is going, go up to to iTunes, to Apple podcasts and give us a rating and preferably even take a minute to write a short review. Even if you don't normally consume your podcasts on Apple, that's still the biggest platform out there and taking a few minutes to do that really helps with that platform to promote the search engines, everything around podcasting to help spread the word and get this out there to others.

Michael: 01:06:05 And then on on social media, Instagram at the man of mastery, you can follow along there to make sure you stay in tune to what's coming up, new episodes, guests in the pipeline when those new episodes drop. And furthermore, same ID at the man of mastery on Facebook. You'll find from there a man of mastery closed group. And if you want to take that next step, that's for men looking to go a little bit deeper, learn from and motivate each other. Set scary goals, face our fears, take action and grow. Look forward to seeing you over there. Thank you again for your time this week. Look forward to sharing another incredible guest with you next week.

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