Ryan Michler, founder of Order of Man, leads under the banner Become the Man You Are Meant to Be – Live with purpose, achieve self-mastery, and create your legacy. The Order of Man movement has touched tens and hundreds of thousands of men through events, the Iron Council group, the blog, social media and the website and worldwide through tens of millions of downloads of the Order of Man podcast. Clearly Ryan is onto something very important and very timely and very special that has eroded and been missing for modern men.

“Weakness is not a virtue.”

– Ryan Michler

It is an honor to be able to bring you this conversation with Ryan Michler as our milestone 50th episode!

You can also find this one in video format on the Man of Mastery YouTube channel

“It’s important that all of us espouse some of the warrior virtues and capabilities. Ideally we don’t ever have to use that in a combat life or death situation.”

– Ryan Michler


Most of my childhood was spent without a permanent father figure. I never learned how to work on my car. I never had the chance to roughhouse with my dad. I didn’t even learn how to throw a baseball correctly until I was a freshman in high school.

Looking back on it now, I wonder how my life would have been different if I had a permanent male influence in my life. What would the world look like if there were more men in it? I’m not talking about males. I’m talking about MEN (there isa difference).

Now that I have sons, I’m committed to being the dad that I never had. We do all kinds of great things together – sports (I coach ALL their teams), build tree houses, and roughhouse ’til we’re exhausted.

I spent most of my childhood without a permanent male role model in my life. And, the few men that were in my life were less-than-stellar examples of what it meant to be a man.

That’s why I started Order of Man – to give men a community and resource to become better.


  • What is needed from men right now?
  • Recommendations and positives coming out of COVID-19
  • Wim Hof experience
  • Owning failure and correcting course
  • Ryan’s morning routine
  • Unique value of combatives for men and boys
  • Defining success
  • Work-from-home schedule, boundaries and priorities
  • Next-level plan for Order of Man


The COVID pandemic may mean you have more time and flexibility or maybe you have even greater commitments but what we all have is an opportunity – an opportunity for a reset, to reprioritize, to shed what’s not working, and to double down on what’s most important. That’s where Performance Kickstart comes in.

A year ago the Man of Mastery brand launched, building a loyal tribe of men who are dedicated to mastering themselves in service to their families, businesses, and communities. This training course is the first I’ve offered to the public and in it will be pulling back the curtain on the wins, the obstacles, and the lessons. You’ll get direct access in weekly live video sessions, assignments, challenges, and accountability. All of this is designed to help you take immediate action and kickstart the changes at least part of you already knows are needed to get back in alignment or level up your performance.

WARNING: Simple and easy aren’t the same thing. Change takes work. Are you ready? These tools come straight from some of the grittiest guys out there – ordinary men doing the extraordinary. You owe it to yourself and those you care about to realize your full potential, how you show up and perform every single day.

Find out more and join us at Performance Kickstart

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At the root of it. It's just, it's a calmness, it's a clarity, it's a focus, even a competency. And that competency is what breeds confidence and your ability to lead effectively and trying times, whether it's this deal with a Corona virus or you know, a child going through a difficult situation at school or your spouse is going through some sort of a medical condition that you're trying to lead her through.

Uh, I think, I think generally people look to men who are capable, who are strong, bold, assertive and able to lead with, with clarity and determination and grit and fortitude

during these times. That's what people are looking for and that's who we had the potential to. Become man of mastery episode 50.

It's a big milestone and today we've got a big guest. I'm super excited about today's guest. It's, it's been a while getting him lined up for this one. But first I just want to say with covid 19 and sequester and everything going on, I hope everybody is, is safe and healthy and not just neutral. I mean I really hope people are coming out of this with positive with, with a reboot on, on a number of things.

You look at the, the earth, there was this picture of, of uh, somewhere in India where they could see the Himalayas for the first time in like 30 years because the atmosphere is clear and you see the water clearing up in the channels in, in Venice almost instantly. So we all need a reboot and there's so many things we can do to come out of this in better health, more connected.

In fact, today's guest talks about his, his four C's that I think are really applicable here too. What we can all be aiming to do during covid locked down and then take forward and continue past it. So he talks about calibration, he talks about connection, texted about condition and about contribution.

So he'll break those down. But what a great way to think about what we should be doing right now and, and how we carry that forward. I also want to, well, next week maybe I'll do a short segment on fear and some ideas around how to think about covid and the unknowns and the situation we're in right now. But if you, you know, if you are in a place where maybe you're in a little bit of a rut because there's not enough structure to the routine you've got right now, or maybe in general if you're looking for a kickstart, there's some other training I'm doing.

Additionally, you can find out more about that if interested and if it's something that might be useful to serve you, go out to man of mastery.com/kickstart man of mastery.com/kickstart but with that, let's jump today's episode. This is what Ryan Michler of order of man.

So Ryan is about five years into a journey, a brand, a movement. He's created order of man that it has clearly. It's clearly needed. It's, it's touched on an emotion. It is important. We talked, we just talked about connection, right? It's, it's something that's brought 50 to a hundred thousand men together in ways that are helpful and are healthy.

And Ryan is really leading something special. So I hope you enjoy this. Talk with Ryan Michler as a, as a father, as a, as a leader, as a husband, and as a man episode 50 man of mastery with Ryan. Michler.

All right guys. Today I have the, the pleasure and the honor of welcoming to the show. Ryan Michler of the order of man. His, uh, his tagline there is become the man you are meant to be. I'll save Ryan the long windup of, of having him listen about himself. But, uh, you know, one thing I do want to say it, if you don't know who Ryan and order man are and, and, and most of you probably do today, you're going to find out and you're in for a treat.

But I do want to kick off Ryan by saying thank you. Uh, Ryan has been for me, an inspiration, a coach and a catalyst and a, and without, you know, a bit of the, the kick in the rear from him, uh, I'd probably still be in the, in the starting blocks or, uh, as a, as an Aussie buddy of mine likes to say, pondering my navel.

Right. So, uh, you know, here I am, I'm coming up on, I think we're going to release this one as the 50th episode of this podcast. Um, I, I just got my video setup here, rock and finally again, a bit of inspiration from Ryan. So this may be my first video episode that goes out as well. So, you know, all good stuff and I think that's kind of the philosophy behind what Ryan's doing by example and leading a lot of men in is just get on the path, you know, left foot, right foot and figure it out as you go.

So Ryan thank you so much for that and welcome to the show. Yeah. Man what an introduction to monitored and uh, yeah, I guess honored to be a small part of, of what you're doing. Cause you put in the work you put in the effort and I commend you for what you've done. So just glad to be here and ready to have a conversation today. Thank you so much. I'm really looking forward to it. And, and uh, it's so timely.

Uh, there is, you know, a challenge that the world faces that this country faces right now trying times for a lot of people that really require courage, leadership amongst other attributes and those are not unique to men. But, um, let's just start off with what, what do you think is really needed from men right at this point in time yet?

Well, there's a lot I think at the uh, Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman who talks about our role of as a man, right? Yeah. I think you, you'd like to ask the question, what is a man or what does that mean to you? And he had a great answer about protecting our children about serving something greater than yourself. And, and in particular, what I took away as he mentioned something about building the skills and the tools that are needed at the moment of truth.

So are there particular things you're you're working on right now? For example, I know you're a jujitsu guy, right? Is, is that kinda part? Yeah,

doing that now because all of my, uh, my, my jujitsu gym is closed down, so I'm not really working on that outside of watching videos, which is good. I guess it's better than nothing, but it doesn't replace being on the ground and rolling with somebody. Uh, so yeah, that's, that's a component of it. Uh, but you know, there's other facets as well, making sure that financially were taken care of and that we're solvent, uh, making sure that we have the provisions we need from firearms and ammunition to a food storage, to being able to articulate clearly what is happening to my children so that they understand what it's going through, what, what, what we're going through as a world and a society and culture, what they are experiencing.

Being open or receptive to that. Being present with them, with my wife, I'm answering questions and being, being a rock really. You know, and again, that comes back to competency and having things in place, but being, being the pillar of being the beacon, the rock that my wife and children can turn to when they're scared or frustrated or confused and not allowing those emotions to rule my behavior.

Certainly I take emotions into consideration, but I don't want it to rule what it is I'm doing. So that's a very stoic philosophy that, uh, I've strived to incorporate and that served me well. But you know, there's other things. Those, those are the soft skills. You have the hard skills like firearms training, jujitsu training, being situationally aware, uh, those types of things come into play and are also important as well.

Yeah, hard skills, soft skills. And just to mention it, so I know you're the father of four, three boys and a girl if I have that right. My son just recently turned 12. So, uh, just, just the one. But you know, this is an interesting time and figuring out how to structure his life right now out of school. Uh, you know, dealing with some information that's tough to digest and is a, is confusing for a lot of people, a lot of unknowns.

And so yeah, communication absolutely is a, is a big part of that and figuring out what the, what the messaging is. Um, so I, I sent you a, a, a, a picture of Liberty or not, not sure if you got a chance to see it, but it's, it's hanging at a gym that I go to run by some friends. It says only a warrior can first truly be a pacifist and everyone else must endure it.

So it says it's a samurai philosophy. And in fact, I've heard it said even a little more strongly than that, not only just endure it but must suffer it. So, and I think that that goes beyond warrior in the sense we think of, of training jets are Krav or something like this. I mean, it's, it's warrior or your servant. To me in the biggest sense of being prepared as a man, as a leader, as a husband, as a father, to take our tribes through good times and bad times, uh, about prep and about how you handle it.

Yeah, I do think it's important that all of us espouse some of the warrior virtues and capabilities. Uh, ideally we don't ever have to use that in a combat life or death type situation. But it's that old adage, it's better to be a warrior in the garden than a gardener in a war. Uh, so, so I like this proverb Jordan Peterson talks about, uh, what does he say?

And I'm paraphrasing here, he says something to the effect of, uh, a good, a good man is not a harmless man. A good man is one who is violent but can, can restrain himself. Something to that effect. And I think it's the same. It's a similar concept here. You you can't be like, weakness is not a virtue. Right? And so some people think that, Oh, well I'm, I'm, I'm being, I'm being civil, right?

Maybe you're not being civil. Well, maybe you're just being weak or you're being cowardly or maybe you're, you're, you don't have these capabilities that has not virtue in and of itself. So it's virtuous to have the capabilities to be able to do harm if needs be, to be able to, uh, lead and be effective and be decisive and make difficult decisions and then fortunately not have to or be able to control yourself or restrain yourself or only exhibit those characteristics in a way that's going to actually serve other people.

Namely your, your, your wife, your kids, the be people you love and care about neighbors, et cetera.

Yeah, absolutely. Are you a, I don't recall, do you homeschool?

We do, yeah. We've been homeschooling for about nine months, eight, nine months now since we moved here to Maine. I say we, it's more accurately my wife.

No doubt about it. Yeah. I mean this situation has really made us think a lot about that. And, and may, you know, may end up down that path and we'll see. We'll see how long this thing lasts. But one of the things we've been doing this week with my son, our son is having him put a structure to his day. He's got a whiteboard and he is mapping out, okay, I'm going to wake up at this time, right?

So I've still got a commitment to be up and be ready. I've got this time to read, do math, and then I'm going to train for Spartan. And then I'm gonna come back and read and do more math before I trained for soccer. And then I'm also a, can't go to a Krav Maga Jim right now. So I'm a, I'm teaching my sons some Krav at home, so I'm keeping myself fresh by teaching him. He's learning some new skills that a, as you say, hopefully it would never have to use but be prepared.

And then I, and I think that gives you more of a calm and confidence to, to walk through the world and walk through life.

What about the, but if you have these skills, you're less likely to have to use them because you realize and understand the stakes. You can keep yourself out of these types of situations. So developing the skill is ironically enough. What keeps you from having to utilize it in a difficult and demanding situation?

Absolutely. I actually took him to a a week long crop for kids' camp a couple of years ago. And going into it, I go, Hey, are you excited? You know, these coaches make it really fun and you're gonna learn some cool stuff. And he goes, no, dad, I don't, I don't like violence. And I said, that's exactly why you're going to learn how to avoid it if at all possible.

Right. And you know, martial arts, I guess you could say it is violent in and of itself. That's the nature of it. But it's, it's more than that. It's significantly more than that. It's not, it's not as, as raw and, and violent and barbaric is those people who aren't familiar with it would think you, you can be. And in the right situation, the right context, it certainly could be that.

But, uh, there's a lot more behind it, a lot more depth to it than just the violent aspect of it.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that completely. It's not something I studied as a child or was exposed to. I've picked it up just over the last few years as an adult and it really surprised me how much there is to it. That's mental, that's philosophical, that takes you, opens doors into new ways of thinking and seeing the world way beyond the physical practice.

Right? Yeah, definitely.

The other thing I like about it for kids is, um, uh, there's just something to, uh, the kind of sport where you can physically literally get knocked down, get your nose bloodied, you know, whether it's boxing jets, wrestling, uh, that teaches a young person to get back up, get off the mat literally.

Well, there's that. And the thing that I think is, is one of the most valuable attributes is that it's one-on-one. You can't hide behind anybody. You can't get lost in the crowd. You can't run away. You can't perform less than you're capable of. It's you and one other individual who is trying to do the same thing to you that you're trying to do to him. And there is so much value in having to face an enemy, something that you're scared of and you should be scared if you're scared about a a tournament or a match.

That's the right, that's the right emotion. There's something to fear here. And then when you step into the fear and you face it and you address it and you come out unscathed, but you come out alive, you realize, okay, I can do this. I'm capable of doing difficult things. I'm capable of, of handling it on my own, putting all of the weight of responsibility on my shoulders and letting the chips fall where they may based on my training and the responsibility and accountability I have to myself.

Absolutely. I'm, I'm fascinated by 'em grow through adversity, through post traumatic growth. You know, the, these things that were, we're fearful of that we lean into and go do. And it's so interesting how it just resets perspective on what you may have thought impossible that in hindsight become just another, you know, kind of milestone in, in the road.

So I'm interested if you agree with that and, and I guess follow on question to that is, is uh, what does that look like for you or look like for your kids and rites of passage or, or goals you set these days?

Yeah, for me, I mean, a pretty good indicator for me is if I'm, if I'm scared of something, I'm a little fearful or anxious about it, then it's probably a good indicator that I should participate in it. Uh, we just did a, a weekend excursion, if you will, about a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, uh, where it was. Yeah, it was exposure to cold water, to cold therapy.

We hiked a mountain in our, in our swim shorts and boots and that was it. And it was snowing at the time. A lot of mindset training, uh, breathing techniques, strategies, things like that. And that was a very powerful, uh, weekend for me and something that I don't, I wouldn't say I was afraid of, but I was cautious of skeptical of, to some degree, but it would push me outside of my comfort zone.

And there were elements of it that were physically painful. And there's value in that, right? There's so much value in that because you give yourself a reference point for what else you're capable of in life. Uh, for my kids' sports is primarily the thing, you know, we get them very involved in competitive sports. We allow them to compete, we, we allow them to lose. It's important they, they they are familiar with and exposed to failure and loss, uh, and, and also winning and succeeding, right?

You've got to have a healthy dose of both. So we give them opportunities to experience that. Um, my oldest son is very involved with me specifically in the store with our organization, so he's learning how to handle, you know, messing up an order or an order, not getting somewhere or having to pay for something where he messed. Uh, very familiar with that. So that's good exposure.

And, and as far as rights of passage go, we do camping and we do a series of, of tasks that I can't get completely into, but we have these difficult conversations and there's challenges that my two oldest sons need to complete on these rites of passages that we do every two years. So very, very involved in the process. Not only does it serve them well, but I feel like it serves me as their father and Amanda as well too.

Yeah. That's amazing. I saw you posted some stuff about, uh, uh, on your own. Um, the, the trip for Wim Hoff was, I think it was a whim, Hoff weekend. Right. Uh, that looks absolutely incredible.

It is incredible. I, I, I was, I was somewhat skeptical of the power of your ability to, you know, generate your own heat to change your physiological response to stimulus. Uh, but it was, it was pretty enlightening and eye-opening. Real deal. It's the real deal.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I, it was a very short exposure to it. Uh, I would've liked to have done it longer and perhaps maybe I will down the road. But, uh, from what I experienced there, there was some, some pretty noticeable, uh, abilities to, to handle yourself physically in, in those extreme circumstances.

I'm curious, how do you, how do you tend to set, uh, set those kinds of goals for yourselves or events or activities for you personally? Ryan so for example, I mean, just one random data point. I remember from several years ago for you, you were talking to Joe de Sena of Spartan on, on one of your, and I think you had maybe you had completed a beast, are you completed your first trifecta years ago, right?

And a and Joe mentioned something like, Hey, come out to the farm in Vermont and lets, you know you're going to do the 60 hour a gogi and you're like, bang, I'm in. You don't even know what you're committed to.

So do you, you said he didn't even say 60 hour a gogi is this a gogi event? I said, okay, I'll do it. And then after our conversation I jumped online to see what it was all about. I'm like, Oh my goodness. Then I realized it was 60 hours.

Gotcha. And, and I love it. You got some stories I think in, in hindsight on that about there was a place of doubt where you almost consider dropping out, but then you realize the commitment you had as a leader to your tribe, other people who had showed up. So do you tend to sort of come across those kinds of things and you recognize them as something to go challenge yourself, whether it needs, tend to design uh, several big things into a year for yourself?

Uh, I wouldn't say that I design those types of events, but just based on, on the podcast and my connection with people, I have opportunities that arise and I try to say yes as often as I can. That's, that's how I go about doing it. If I, if there's an opportunity, it's going to push me outside of my comfort zone. I try to say yes. My natural inclination is to say no, I'm prone to avoid risks.

I'm a pretty safe and conservative guy. Like I don't push outside, you know, or, or rock the boat too much. So I do find that if there's something that that would challenge me mentally and physically that I have to push myself to saying yes and it's always proved to be good and to serve me well. Um, but you know, I am deliberate about the way that I go about my day. I plan in in 12 weeks segments.

I've got an overarching vision for the type of man that I want to be in, in the roles of father and husband and leader of this movement and organization leader in my community and all of the other things that I'm doing. Uh, and then I start to work down, I kind of looked at it like a pyramid. So you've got this vision of who you are and who you want to be almost with, you know, you see that image on the dollar bill with the eye on the top of the pyramid, right?

Like that's my vision, that's why I want to be, and then it trickles down from there. So I start looking in 12 weeks segments, uh, at certain objectives I want to accomplish in four key areas of my life. So myself, my physical, mental, and I should say, I'll say it this way, the way that we've designed this in the framework is calibration, which is yourself, mental, spiritual, emotional health.

The second component is connection. So the relationships that you have with other individuals. The third component is condition, that's your physical health, sleep, nutrition, exercise, diet, et cetera. And then the fourth component that I have is contribution, which is becoming a man of value. How do I add more value? How do I acquire more knowledge and information and then, and then share that as value that might be in a work environment where I get a new credential or degree and I apply that to my work environment.

I secure a new job or a promotion, maybe it's coaching a sports team. One of my kids is teams for the quarter or for the year. Uh, and, and giving back and serving the, the boys in the community. You know, those are the ways that it manifests itself. So I really plan in these 12 weeks segments and there's a lot more to it, but we go back and we track it and everything else that, uh, has proven to produce results over, you know, in the last five years of my life is the system I've been using.

I like how you chunk that down. I am, uh, I gotta ask just cause I'm curious. So I know I think early on probably very early on in your, in your order man podcast you interviewed Mark divine. Uh, I'm surprised that he never twisted your arm into a seal fit crucible.

Yeah. He didn't, he didn't ask me about it and uh, I didn't push on me. Uh, but that is something that, you know, is another appealing, appealing activity. I've been so immersed in jujitsu lately that that's really taken a lot of my time and attention in any spare time. But yeah, these activities are, are very, very powerful and they're, they're abundant.

Everyone has something like this that you can go participate in and it's a really good way to push yourself.

Yeah, I totally agree. I did one of those last summer with, with him and his career 12 hour overnight. And, uh, and I think I'm going to go back for more, either either the 24 hour or the, or the 50 hour, uh, com coming up. But it's, I mean, it's in so many ways, right? Getting outside that comfort zone physically, uh, you know, not just physically, emotionally and the teamwork component to it and the, Oh, yeah, that's the only way to go through one of those things and survive it as is, as a team.

Yeah. I mean, there's, so there's the teamwork and then there's, I think, I mean, the teamwork is important, but I would think that the number one skill sets you need to have or, or the thing element that you need to have short up is your mindset. Um, if your mind isn't right and you've given yourself an out before you even show up, or, or you're not exposed to hardship, or you haven't committed fully to completing what it is you say you're going to complete, it's gonna get hard.

It's gonna be painful mentally, emotionally, physically. And in those moments you'll quit if you give yourself an out. So the mindset to me is the crucial part because your body can endure way more than you think it can. It's your mind that gives first.

Yeah, no doubt about it. We had a, uh, we had a guy, uh, as soon as you start, you get on a run, I dunno, a couple of miles, just an easy jog in before the real beat down starts in the chaos and the screaming and the hoses and the mud and all that kind of stuff. This guy, uh, he pulled off to the side of the road as we were jogging in. He was going to quit like five minutes into this thing that he had trained for, that he paid for that, uh, had barely started.

And you know, the team grabbed him and said, you know, no way. Like get back on the road yet.

Right. He was probably in his head, he was, he probably had some expectations of how hard this was going to be. And so his mind was playing tricks on him, obviously based on what you're saying, he was capable of running two miles. Uh, but yeah, he was playing tricks with himself, it sounds like. Yeah. Right.

Uh, and he finished it right. And you finished at 12 hours. So it's your, your mind has this way of going to make up these, these end States, you know, literally it's a survival mechanism, right? So it makes up some story about how you're going to die because you're doing something that you're afraid of.

Yeah. We have the ability, the tremendous ability, although it doesn't always serve us well to create what had been dubbed cognitive distortions. So what we'll do is we'll look at a situation and we'll start making a bunch of assumptions and guesswork as to what will happen. And usually what the human mind will do is jump to the worst possible scenario.

That's a defense mechanism, right? If we, if we jumped to the worst case scenario, then we potentially arm ourselves for what could happen. But in modern times, you're not going to have to run away from a dinosaur or saber tooth tiger like no other tribe is out to kill you. You're probably not going to have to come with into a life or death situation.

And so usually our situations are, well, you're going to have a bad day or maybe you're going to get laid off or sued or you know, all of the, or, or you're going through a rock, a Rocky patch w with your wife. I'm not saying these things are easy. I'm saying they're manageable. You're gonna, you're going to survive. You're going to come out. Okay.

If you jump to worst-case conclusions and scenarios, uh, you're going to do things to your mind and to yourself and I know, cause I've done this the hard way that are not conducive to growth and expansion and improvement.

Yeah, totally agree with that. I think at the same thing, and you know, probably not going to have to run away from a tiger or a bear, although I did see a bear during a Spartan race in Breckenridge a couple of years ago. It was up the slope, but you know, probably falls into the category of, I don't have to outrun the bear. I only have to outrun the other, the other Spartan racers around me. Right.


What are the odds that bear's gonna attack you versus the hundred people around you? Right. Nothing we did that, uh, yeah. Is going to run away and not do anything. Uh, we did when we did that Spartan a gogi, we had a, uh, a friend there who is deathly afraid of bears apparently. And uh, and he actually ended up seeing a bear and it freaked him out.

He's running up a Hill or work or something and it freaked him out and he told us and it ended up being like a little bear Cub and he was so afraid of it and we made fun of them. So yeah, it's, I mean, our minds just played tricks on us and make things worse than they really are.

Yeah. They sure do. And to me that's one of the great things about, about going out and doing these kind of crucible things. Um, hard things. And what's hard or what's scary differs for each of us. It's all, it's all relative, right? But it trains kind of that muscle of, of being willing to do those things. Being willing to grow through those experiences.

Uh, and, and I also, I mean I kind of have this theory and I want to test this because to me it seems very similar to the concepts you teach the men in your tribe is we're not that far removed from cave man. Right? And, um,

I think we are, but mentally, uh, we are not, so our minds, mentally primal urges and instincts and just the human nature,

right? And that human nature, something very primal to me in man is that we thrive. We need a tribe of men and we need the thrill of the hunt. And, uh, I believe there are men out there who, if they're not finding some way to get sort of that thrill of the hunt, quote unquote there, it's, they're going to act out in other ways. You know, they're going to do it through substance abuse.

They're going to do it through, you know, cheating on their significant other or things like that. That that's true. It's not necessarily thrill seeking, but there's something that men need and going out and doing hard things and doing it with other men that we don't necessarily have in modern America.

Yeah, I agree. Which is why it's your responsibility to manufacture it. You know, it's, it's funny when we moved to Maine about nine, 10 months ago, uh, we got dubbed as the weird workout people is my wife aside and we, you know, run labs in our yard. Uh, we, we had a tie, we have a tire that would be flipping or hit him with a sledge hammer.

So we were, we were dubbed the weird workout people. And I thought, well that's it. That's a strange thing to like to say about somebody. You know, it's kinda weird. I wasn't offended. I was just like this weird. Um, but I get it now because a lot of people here in Maine are there. They're living a different lifestyle than I'm used to. It's a more Hardy, rough, rugged lifestyle or chopping wood.

They're driving truck blue collar jobs. It's a different lifestyle. And it's funny because these people don't need to manufacture workouts because that's life, their life as a workout. But most of us sit behind a cubicle or sit in a desk and we're hunched over the keyboard all day and we're in a climate controlled building and if somebody hurts our feelings then we get these little safe spaces and timeouts.

Like it's easy. Life is easy. So it's, it's so easy in fact that people make up dumb things to worry about. And it's funny because a lot of these like big pressing woke social issues since this Corona virus outbreak have seemed to have kind of disappeared and dissipated, that's because we actually have something real to worry about instead of making it up.

The point I'm trying to make here is that because our life is so conditioned and so easy, we need to become those weird workout people. We need to intentionally create physical and mental hardship for ourselves so that we can improve so that we can get better. And if we're not doing it, then we're just, we're, we're, we're complacent, we're mediocre, we're falling behind.

And then we're ill-equipped for real issues, like a global pandemic, for example.

I'm super glad to hear that. I'm not the only weird workout guy in the world. It's an honor.

Man it's that, that to me, I'm like, that's an honor. I'll gladly take that call. I've been called way worse than that.

No doubt about it. I, so my son plays club soccer, uh, which, you know, in a, in a normal,

a normal schedule, he's practicing several times a week. It's big, big time commitment, right? Uh, they, they do an hour and a half practice. And what I decided to do is, uh, you know, stacks and things together. So for the first hour of his soccer workout, I get a workout in. So I'm the weirdo carrying a sandbag around or wearing a weight vest or doing a high plank or doing burpees or something.

And at first all these other dads are looking at me like, what is going on here? And then one day, one of them brought his running shoes and he started doing, lasts with me. One day a kid, like a little brother and one of the kids practicing started doing laughs with me, you know, another day, uh, my wife started coming out, one of my son's schoolmates comes out there now and he doesn't even play soccer.

Right. He just comes out and works with. So I think, yeah, not only is it on us to manufacture it, it's infectious and it's a good thing.

Yeah. I did something similar last year when my kids were playing baseball. My oldest son, I would go drop them off at practice and a couple of the dads would be hanging out and sitting around and talking, which is fine. Like I don't look down on that. It's fine. You get some social aspect and you're outside. It's a good thing that you're supporting your kid. Nothing wrong with that. Um, but I, you know, I would take the opportunity to run on the warning track and the baseball field and I would just run from pole to pole just back and forth.

And I swear I must have done 50 or 60 laps by the time practice was over. And uh, you know, I do things like that when they were playing football, um, really nice field that they were playing on AstroTurf. Nice field, beautiful rubber track. I go out there and run labs and even at jujitsu when, when the kids are rolling and doing jujitsu, a lot of parents are there and again, that's fine.

They're there supporting their kids, but they've got a bench and some weights right there and a pull up bar and a punching bag. And so I'm over in the corner, you know, doing my thing like this. These are opportunities to stack tasks, which is important cause we only have a limited amount of time and we've got to make the most of it when we have it. You've got to take it,

you got to take, uh, and really no excuses. Right. You know, some people would go, Oh, well, you know, I can't run a Spartan race. I can't do jujitsu. I'm going to, I'm going to do it after I get in shape. Like you've just got to start. You just got to start doing it. Right. And, and even if it's, yeah. Sitting at a desk too long, uh, if I spun the camera around here in my home office, a couple, you know, I got a rowing machine and I got an elliptical, you got the pull up bar, you know, even if it's just like stand up and do three pull-ups between meetings, it's something.

Right, right. And I have, I leave my, uh, sore necks kettlebells right here. They're just right here on the floor. And so I'll get up and I'll do some either a kettlebell swings or, uh, you know, I'll put them on my shoulder and do some squats or I'll do pushups on them so I can go further than parallel. Like, I do a lot of different stuff just with the little hunk of metal that I have right here. Like, there's so much that you can do if you're just a little bit intentional about it,

a bit of movement even for 30 seconds. Right. And this stuff starts to compound. So, um, maybe let's talk about compounding success results. Let's talk about schedule too, right? Because we're kind of talking about stacking, um, for, for you and for your family. Um, morning ritual, evening rituals. Something I like to ask a lot of people about.

Do you have one, uh, that you subscribe to that you always stick to and it has, it, has it changed at all now with the kind of, the lockdown

our life hasn't really changed with, with this lockdown thing. Like, because it's been this way for the last year. Like I work at home, well, it's been this way for longer. I work at home, my wife stays at home. Our kids are homeschooled, so like none of this is actually foreign to us, which is kind of interesting. People are like, Oh, how's it been? I'm like, it's been pretty like status quo.

Like not a whole lot has changed other than baseball. Right? Some of you saying we can't. Yeah, we can't get involved in the sports and the social aspect. But as far as the family dynamic, it's been pretty manageable. Um, yeah, so morning routine is I'll wake up, uh, get some water in me. Um, I'll do, do some exercising. Uh, sometimes when, when I was training Jiu Jitsu, I'd trained three days a week in the morning and then two in the evenings.

So I'd go do that. And then the days I wasn't, I would just work out here. I've got some, I've got a rower, we've got the pull-up bars, we've got a squat rack. We, I brought everything inside where it's so cold cause it's normally in our garage. So brought everything inside and we do it here. A lot of body weight movements. We've got mats in her house, so me and my kids wrestle and things like that. So I'll, I'll do my workout in the morning.

Uh, then we'll have breakfast, you know, try to have breakfast together to the, to the degree that we can. Uh, we usually do a family meeting, which is an opportunity for us to all get on the same page. And this doesn't apply as much now, but you know, where are the kids going? What practices, what activities, who needed to take, who, where, when do they need to pick them up? What are we having for dinner, these types of things.

And then we go about our day. Um, and then the very first thing I do is I actually get this planner out and I'd go through and I, I plan out my day and document and write down everything that I need to accomplish a look at what I didn't accomplish from the day before. Roll that over, uh, making sure that I'm tracking my stats and the things I want to accomplish.

That's, that's pretty much my morning. And then I just get to it. Uh, evening is the very first thing I'll do before I wind down with work is I'll pull this back out and I'll recap it. What did I get done? What didn't I get done? Uh, and then we'll do dinner. So we, we have dinner as a family, 99% of the night's dinner. As a family. It's very important to us. We asked the kids about their day, what they liked most, what they like least.

And then when we're done, we'll usually do some jujitsu or we'll work on a puzzle together or play a game. It's usually family time. Put the kids down about seven 30, eight o'clock. And then my wife, you know, half of the time we'll go and do our own thing. She's growing your seeds right now. Maybe I have a project or podcast I'm trying to release. So we'll take an hour or whatever and then we'll come back together.

We'll read books or watch a show or work on a puzzle together. Um, but that's pretty much the system.

Nice. Do you, uh, do you have a hard, do you use a strict calendar? I have a hard stop for work. You know, working from home has a, has the tendency to try to creep into your life.

I actually allow it to creep in because I like it, you know. So during the day, you know, this morning for example, I had a podcast, uh, uh, let's see, well, at 1130, but I didn't have anything scheduled. I had things I needed to do. So I came in, got some work done, about eight 30, nine o'clock, spent about an hour, maybe an hour and a half doing that.

And then all my kids were outside with my wife playing in the snow, cause we got about eight to nine inches of snow last night. And so I went out there with them and watch them. I was shoveling snow, uh, on the porch while they were playing, but I was outside with them doing the thing. So I allow some of that little creep to come in, um, because it's important to me as far as stopping. Yeah. I stop at at night about five 30 or six o'clock every day.

Yeah. So I, I do, I have that hard stop at five 30 or six. Um, and then that, that's usually how it works. Uh, not always. I mean, last night, and this is a very rare exception, but last night I had the opportunity to interview a doctor, a physician, and a scientist who's working on a vaccine for Corona.

Apologies. I know you've, you struggle a little bit with internet in the past, so it must be on me this time.

I've done that. Man fortunately, knock on wood, I really haven't

adapt and overcome. This is what we're talking about. Life will throw you curve balls. I appreciate your patients. So you're, you were just saying a hard-stop and, and you had an opportunity to interview a dock last night working on covid.

Yeah. So yeah, I had a, I had an opportunity last night to work or have a conversation with a scientist and a physician who's working on a vaccine for Corona virus. Uh, so I did that. It was like seven 30, eight o'clock. But you know, those are few and far between, but 99% of the time I stop at five 30 or six and that's the boundary that I've set up and, and that works for my family dynamic.

Yeah, thanks for that idea. I mean there's, there's all, I find there's always more work and uh, especially with the diamond dynamic we've got right now with the, the, the kind of a lockdown. I'm, I'm trying to figure that one out and really figure out what it, what it looks like. So, uh,

important routines are important. Um, if you don't have that, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's just you're not going to be as effective with what you're trying to do. So, um, yeah, creating that routine is important for you and your kids too. They need that routine and that discipline and structure.

They do. Absolutely. And then we were talking about stacking things and, and uh, I mentioned sort of compound compound interest, compound results. Uh, so, you know, whether it's the, Oh, you know, I can't lift this. I can't run a Spartan. I can't train jets, you know, whatever that mindset might be. This is just this.

Um, how would I describe it? I think people look at things like success or accomplishments as a point in time event rather than realizing it's a process. Uh, I think, uh, Willie Nelson said something along the lines of, uh, you know, it was amazing this, this hit song or whatever. But you know, after 10 years of playing behind chicken wire in Podunk bars or whatever, people don't have the perspective or the opportunity, that transparency sometimes to see all the work that goes into something.

So you, for example, order man has been wildly successful in it and it's been on a huge kind of upswing from the, from the very beginning. Right? But not everything is success. Not everything succeeds. I know you've had issues with business in the past, you've had that, you know, kind of the first trial and getting an event going and figuring that thing out.

So can you talk a little bit about how it's not a, you know, it's not a straight line path. It's a, it's a jagged path.

I mean, it is, it's, you're gonna have ups and downs and hopefully when you pan back out and you look at the whole of the situation you're in, that it looks like it's an upward trajectory. But if you zoom in on one specific moment, you're going to see a lot of variable. Uh, we call it standard deviation in the financial world, right? You're going to see a lot of deviation from that average growth that hopefully you're experiencing over a long period of time.

It could be high, it could be low, but it's never linear. Right? Uh, so yeah, we've, we've had, we've had a lot of ups and downs and I've learned a lot of lessons and fortunately I've had the mindset to always take them as lessons, uh, when, when we do fall behind or we do fall short, the first event that we did here in Maine, in fact, which is probably are eight, seventh or eighth event, we lost, we lost money on the event.

Uh, you know, and obviously we're not in the business of losing money, but it is, it is what it is. It worked out that way. Now, granted, a lot of the reason that we lost on the event was because I put a lot of money and investment into getting our barn and, and homestead situated where we could host, you know, a hundred people here at a time.

So that will always be the case. But those are learning. Those are learning moments and learning opportunities and they're a valuable part of the process. But it's, you gotta be very careful if you're looking at other people's successes and you're discounting what it took to get there. Like if you're discounting, for example, somebody's ability to communicate and you're listening to a podcast and you want to start your own podcast podcast do you think, well, you know, the only reason he's good at a podcast as he can because he's a great communicator or he's well connected or he's wealthy URIs, whatever, fill in the blank.

Then your, you're really excusing yourself because what you're also simultaneously saying is that the only reason that person has what they have is because of a series of fortunate events outside of their control. So now you're suggesting even subconsciously, that the only reason you're not ahead is because your series of unfortunate events hasn't taken place yet.

So you don't, you, you, you get to absolve yourself of all of the work that this individual did. And you just wait for your ship to come in. And then you wonder in 10, 15, 20 years why you're not experiencing results. It's because you spent so much time discounting what other people were doing and you excused, uh, the work required to have with that individual has, right?

So I say honor people who have achieved success, honor them by acknowledging the hard work that they've done in the challenges they've overcome to get there. When I see somebody who's successful, you know, take Joe Rogan, for example, if you're looking, if you're to look at the pinnacle of podcasting, that would probably be on a short list of, of the best on anyone's list, objectively anyone's list.

And it would be easy to say, well, you know, it's because he was a comedian and before and because he did fear factor and because of this and because of that, that stuff wasn't easy either. The key built that stuff as well. So I, I actually honor the work that he's put in, the effort that he's put in, and that's something I celebrate, uh, to, to the degree that I can.

And then I recognize that that's the same amount of effort and work I need to put in in order to have the same and similar types of results that, that he's experienced.

Yeah. It's about the, the hard work and the action as opposed to the excuses and waiting for, I don't know if it's entitlement or whatever it is. I've got, yeah, it's quick, quick story that's very, very similar. I've got a buddy who started a business in San Diego, a brewery, and they've done very, very well. He's got a unique product and niche and, and uh, and they'll probably transact some day for hopefully a huge multiple and, and great for him and his business partners in his family.

But what people don't see is that when he started that business, he cashed out everything he had and put his entire life savings and it moved out of his house into his own garage, rented the house out. His wife was pregnant. So he's living in the garage with like mice and a pregnant wife. And, uh, and then his initial prototype, a beverage, he couldn't replicate the recipe after they'd made the commitment.

So failure after failure for, for days on end for months until we finally got it right. Right. He put in the hard work, he put in the reps. Uh, and it's not about, you know, kind of that end. It's, it's about the journey along the way.

Yeah. Great, great example of that. And most people will never see the rats. They'll never experience his wife being upset with him because she's sleeping on a couch while she's pregnant. They'll never see it. All they'll see is the result that he produced when he becomes, has some notoriety for it and they'll discount an excuse everything else that happened leading up to it.

Yeah, no doubt. So what's, uh, what's kinda the next level for you? You know, people look at Ryan Michler very successful order man so far these events that you started, they're selling out almost without, I think, any, any publicity or marketing. Um, you've got a iron council I think has grown quite significantly. Um, what's kind of next level for you?

Uh, right now we're just continuing to grow and expand our offerings. We're working on an initiative inside of our iron council to track and uh, honor those men who are engaged in activities and achievements that they can unlock and advancements within the iron council. So that's something that's got a lot of my attention right now. Uh, next year prior to everything that's been happening with the Corona virus, we, we've had an idea to run a very large event.

I'm talking a thousand plus men at an event, uh, bringing in some tremendous high quality top notch speakers to speak at this event and to share their experiences and thoughts and really put together a phenomenal conference for men. Uh, and those were the two right now other than, you know, just continuing to double down on the work we're doing, the efficiency and the effectiveness of it, how we're reaching more people, a lot of the same and some minor adjustments and experimentation along the way.

But uh, yeah, we've got a, we've got a long ways to go. Um, and uh, we're on the path six. It's exciting stuff.

Uh, I'm excited man, that that large event sounds amazing. I look forward to hearing more about that. Um, so, you know, as we start to wind down, uh, let's talk about different ways and places people can find you, but I do have a question. So one of those places is a Facebook group, a that's grown quite large and that you run successfully for quite awhile.

And I just wanted to ask, because this happened a little while ago that kind of relates back to, you know, do the work, right? Kind of suck it up sometimes and do the hard stuff. Uh, when I, uh, I, I'm not a Facebook guy, like I am not naturally inclined to social media. It's, it's part of, I think what we do, uh, as a necessity.

But personally, I think I enjoyed your podcast long before I just kinda clicked the button and got into Facebook. Right. And what I saw in the Facebook group, uh, over time I perceived to be a lot of whining and not a lot of doing. And I think you kind of put your foot down with a little bit of tough love a while ago and said, all right, this is on me, but we're going to correct course here.

Have you, has that happened? Or if you decide what you're going to do with the group, is that going to continue?

Uh, as of right now, it's going to continue. We were able to course correct and change a lot of the trajectory and direction of it. And you know, this is something after running that Facebook group for, uh, for four years now that is, is typical, right? It's, it's standard. This happens, you know, you veer off course or you pay less attention to one thing because you're giving your attention to something else. And then the thing that you weren't paying attention to start to cry and is the squeaky wheel and then it needs your attention.

And this is the way of, of business and life. Um, but we created and built a standard operating procedure that, uh, all of my moderators now know and have read and, and know exactly what is expected of them. We brought in new moderators to help because we had grown so large that with our current moderator team, it just wasn't enough people.

Uh, we assign some, some, uh, assignments and roles and responsibilities and then we're quick to remove people from the group. You know, I hate, I hate to do that because we want meant the whole is to help as many men as possible with the tools and the resources they need. So you hate to eliminate somebody, but I don't feel like I'm supposed to be the savior of, of, of everybody and help every single man out there.

Some guys just aren't interested. And if that's the case, that's fine. I wish them the best, but they're not going to be destructive, uh, in, in our group. They're not going to jeopardize what it is that we worked so hard to create. So I'm very comfortable removing people quick without asking a whole lot of questions or giving a whole lot of warnings. And I've instructed our moderator team to do the same thing.

And, uh, it seemed to have cleared a lot of this whining and complaining up and been more focused on goals and solutions and activities and driving forward like men not like little boys.

Right, right. Exactly. Well, I'm glad you said that. Thanks for being straight forward about it. And, and that's one of the amazing things I think for people who get to know you and get to know your content is, is a ownership and accountability. You know, you seem like the guy that's always willing to raise his hand and say, look, ah, I don't know if I'm part of the problem but I'm going to help be part of the solution here. And, and you know where their course corrections that needed to be made.

You go like, okay, we need to correct course share. Let's just do it.

I mean, what's the alternative? Not, not acknowledging it and not addressing it, putting it off on somebody else and then it just keeps going in the same direction. I don't want to go to that direction. I want to go this direction and whether it's my fault or not, if I want to change directions or I want something to happen or I want to effect the outcome of something, it doesn't have to be my fault. But if I want to enact that change, then it has to be my responsibility.

And that's the way that I've lived my life over the past five years mostly. And we've produced some amazing and incredible results for ourselves. I say ourselves, my family mostly is what I'm talking about. But also with within the order a man and people who listen and are inspired by what we do, it's, it's a powerful responsibility to heavy burden. Um, but it's a burden that, uh, I'm willing to bear because it's the battle like you were talking about earlier.

It's that adventure John elders talks about in his book, one of my favorite quotes, he says, deepen his heart. Every man longs for a battle to fight an adventure, to live in a beauty to rescue. And, uh, I found that to be true and I've tried to step into that phrases often and frequently as I possibly can. And it served me well.

Well you are absolutely clearly the right guy for the job. You know, you've, you've helped touched, inspired a ton of men. Uh, and I think your, you know, your last point brings us right back to where we started on courage and leadership. So, um, you know, we're all facing uncertain times right now. If we want to wrap it up maybe with w what would you leave men with as a, and people in general a thought on what to do next in a very uncertain future we've got with covid and, and that pandemic.

What are some things we can, uh, do proactively that we can control or that we can do to come out of this with huge positives and new opportunities?

Yeah, it's a very unprecedented time, but it also represents a tremendous opportunity for those who are willing to, that there will be opportunities and then to step into those opportunities. It's not enough to acknowledge it. Like you have to accept it, embrace it. And then work towards it. If you don't mind, I'm going to share a post that I had made, um, on Instagram. Please. Maybe a half an hour before we jumped on this call.

Absolutely. Uh, and, and here it is. Uh, these are trying times, excuse me. These trying times are going to devastate a lot of people. They're also going to create some incredible opportunities for others, which camp you fall into is largely determined by you. And then I come up with some recommendations on what people can do. So wake up early, move your body, lift heavy things, read a bunch of books, eat clean, look for problems, solve the problems.

Help a family member. Serve a neighbor, learn a new skill. Pick up a new hobby. Connect with a lost relationship. Work with your hands. Donate to charity, build a project, build a product, make connections, share connections, add value. Be a man. So the individuals who take this list and add to this list, uh, and, and work hard on incorporating these things in their life will be much better served.

And they'll come out of this thing, not without scars, but a better and stronger and more capable because of it.

I, I love that. And it's all action oriented. Uh, you know, again, in a crisis there's a risk of just getting glued to the endless news cycle and the end, the uncertainty. But, uh, what you just, what you just read. Thank you for sharing that. It's all about kind of surveying the scene and just getting on the path and take an action and doing positive things.

So really appreciate that. And uh, why don't we wrap it up with where people can best hear more of that from you and find you in order. Man

yeah, Instagram's a be a great place. Facebook and Twitter all at Ryan Michler and my last name is spelled M. I. C. H. L. E. R. we're on YouTube and wherever you listen to podcast as well. So if you want to listen to the podcast or watch the podcast, then just search order of man just like it shows on the hat, right. And, uh, and you'll find us.

Perfect. Well, thank you so much. I'm really looking forward to, uh, events, getting back on the schedule when life gets back to normal. Uh, I'll, I'll tune in for that. And, uh, I wanna uh, I, I, I don't want to say I want to, I am going to, uh, register for one of those and, and join you in person one of these days soon. But I super appreciate your time and thanks for jumping on and thanks for bearing with me through, uh, through wifi issues here.

Enjoyed it. Uh, thank you so much for sharing.

What else has turned to have wifi. I'm just enjoying the moment looking at what I must have looked like when my internet yeah.

Was on the Fritz my frozen face on your screen. Absolutely. But thank you so much for your time and thank you for what you do. Ryan

thanks brother. I appreciate the opportunity.

Okay. That was episode 50, Amanda mastery podcast and thank you again to Ryan Michler for that one. Super excited to have brought him to you and thank you for all of you guys. Ryan and you included for bearing with me through some stuff

on that one. Like I said, adapt and overcome. I had internet issues. It's the first time I shot video for any episode and for the most part other than a quick cameo from me somewhere there in the middle trying to fix issues, adapted, overcome. As I said, I uh, I just recorded one side of the video just Ryan but Hey, he's, he's the important one on this one.

You got a good experience with Ryan. The audio levels are all over the place. Hopefully I fix those to a level that you could enjoy this. There was just some important stuff from Ryan, so hopefully you got everything you could out of it in what's needed from men right now as, as fathers, leaders, husbands now and, and out into the future.

You can find show notes for this one, links to Ryan, order of man, his book sovereignty and iron council@manofmastery.com slash zero five zero and you'll also find links there to the video version of this ad on YouTube if you want to check that one out. All right, coming up next week. I think I'm going to do a solo cast on, on fear just to help people through what we're all going through right now.

And then I'm excited about what's to come here and in year two. So stay tuned in. As always, I welcome your feedback, your reactions, your suggestions, guests and topical ideas. Keep them coming. Thank you for listening. I really do appreciate you guys and have another great.